Due to being downsized with a large residential builder, I’m looking to move into commercial construction management. I have had a great run in building single family homes, but the market here is FL is too volitile and saturated with a lot of others in my situation.
Commercial Construction is booming and I would like to get my foot in the door. My question is, I would like to know what the major differences is in management of a commercial site vs. a residential site? I have built many tract homes, a few custom homes and did remodels up North, and have a wealth of knowledge on different construction practices, but what do i need to do to break into the commercial brotherhood?
I know that there are different scheduling requirements, and that material management needs to be handled differently, but what else is there. Is it an easy switch, or will I be a fish out of water with just residential experience?
Is there any reference books that you would recommend that will help me get through an interview? I have passed the FL Contractor’s License (not through some prep course, but the old fashioned way, read every book cover to cover)
Thanks for the help.
Replies
Commercial construction is almost always fully permitted and inspected, and there are architectural, structural, electrical and mechanical drawings to build to. Depending on the size of the project, there will be a site meeting every week or twice a month, with the archy and owners rep, the gc, and usually subs who are working at that time.
Paperwork is king ... document everything, daily work sheets, submittals to the archy, change oprders, etc. Money is usually not an issue: the owner/customer will have the financing in place before the contract is signed. A decent archy will require you to submit a proposed change order with cost and additional time spelled out before the extra work begins. You probably wion't get stiffed for extra work or uncovered hidden conditions as long as you communicate fully.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
you think complain about codes are bad in residental. you dont do anything without code in commerical, they throw you in jail.
i agree with fast eddie and would like to add depending on the scale of the project, or the customer, that scheduling is the most important facet of commercial.
almost all government contracts are scheduled with primavera software, and some light commercial contractors may prefer microsoft project.
you also have to have a good understanding of critical path, and it would be nice to be able to look at the schedule and recognize the areas that need handholding and attention.
i also happen to think that shop drawings are great, if you can look at the plans and schedule and anticipate problem areas, and be able to create shop drawings, or blow ups of the plan with simplified instructions, that foresight and planning will go a long way to ensuring smooth running profitable commercial projects.
if you are competent with suretrak, autoCAD, and have practical construction experience your in!
I wouldn't put many eggs in the Commercial basket yet. I don't know where in Florida you are but here in Lee County commercial has boomed the last 18 months. However, most of it was due to additional impact fees were added to not yet permitted jobs as of March of 07. All of those jobs are either just finished or will soon. There is virtually no new commercial anywhere around here and commercial is way overbuilt in the whole state. Vacancy rates are in the stratosphere so commercial is about where residential was 3 years ago. Look for a big crash in commercial soon.
I'm close to the Kissimmee area, so with the theme parks, rebuilding/updating of previous shopping centers and lakefront development, I think the Disney area still has some growth left.
Who knows, if commercial does slow down, maybe residential will be on the upswing? Viscious cycle isn't it?
I agree with everyone that documentation is key. Spending extra time on the shop drawings is a great hint. I know commercial is not as forgiving of mistakes like residential. Tearing out 4" of 2500psi is a lot easier than 6-8" of 5000psi mix!
Keep the advice coming!
Mike,
I would recommend you try to get a job with a commercial company and let them train you and learn while you earn. Don't try to go it on your own just yet as just the commerical rating value of your insurance will be a huge chunk of cash. I am in the Tampa area and just shut the doors of my contracting company (did both res. and commerical) as everyone around here is fighting for the few jobs there are.
My last estimate was for a commerical buildout and 14 guys were bidding on it! Thats a bit too difficult to be the lowest bidder on a job like that.
Just my two cents of course.
Tearing out 4" of 2500psi is a lot easier than 6-8" of 5000psi mix!
Depends on what you pour. One of my jobs, the specs called for 3500 psi concrete, so the contractor ordered 5000 psi mix, but upped the slump to a bit over 7 and added 7% air on top of that. I bet it poured real easy. The 28 day tests arer in and he topped out at 3800 psi. He met code, but sure wasted a lot of cement getting there.
I said money is not a problem, but getting paid can be a struggle. You have to submit an AIA form once a month, with complete breakdown by type of work, and have lien waivers for the previous month. This goes to the archy, who verifies the percentages complete, or else says your billing more than actual so you have to resuybmit, then it goes to the owner who processes the draw and you get your money about 30 days after sending in the bill. One good thing is that there's a column for stored materials, so as long as you can prove that the plumbing fixtures are sitting in your yard or in the subs warehouse, you can get paid for them.
Scheduling is just as important as the budget. Some jobs you sign the contract, then in a few days you tell the owner when the job will be complete, and then the owner starts coordinating their vendors around that schedule (furniture, phone & data lines, and owner supplied equipment). And they expect you to meet that date. Wer were building a branch in a shopping center, and the contract stated that the work had to be complete by the day before Thanksgiving. If not, then all work had to cease until Jan 2 because of the shopping season. Shutting down a job for 6 weeks is tough, cuz the gc needs to find a place for the superintendent or else carry him as nonworking overhead."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
most commerical gc that I encounter daily have four years degrees. jobs are bid so tight that little errors can cost you. a little error couple million dollars. but then there are differnt type of commerical. bridge, schools, hospital , industral, miltary,stores, malls. power plants.
7 years ago I stepped into being a commercial site super without a clue about what the differences were from residential work.
Projects I have done since then are not really very big as commercial projects go and are in a specialty field.
30 years custom residential was a good preparation for dealing with personalities, overall problem solving skills and a solid basic knowledge of every trades work and how to interface them.
30 Years residential mixed with some light commercial was not a good preparation for the world of spreadsheets, autocads, shop drawings, special inspections, union rules, remittances, change orders needing complete approval before any thing is accomplished, subs/owners/bosses that think that schedules are cast in stone, being responsible for unloading , storing and protecting stuff they need, 10% retainage on everybody until 30 days after the entire project is completed, inspected and signed off by everybody, and the grudge matches between trades, Those items are just for starters.
First time someone asked if I had signed off on the shop drawings for the re-bar I had to ask what the He** they were talking about and so it went all through my first project. I learned and learned fast , 12 hour days 6-7 days a week and study on the weekend if I did take a day away from the site. By the end of the second project I did I could read re-bar shop drawing as well as the bar-busters and better then most of them, same with most other shop drawings. If I had a question I hunted down the friendliest foreman/tradesman/engineer/archy and asked questions about specifics and got explanations.
But I did it and so can you.
I learned very quickly to figure out who was willing to help me learn and who wanted to prove that I didn't know my stuff. I clung to the former and avoided the latter.
Paper work rules !! Logs, copies of everything , files on everything.
Initialed or signed ok's on every change no matter how minor. If it is not spelled out in the contract no one is going to tell you or do it until they get a signed change order. This applies even when they knew full well from the start that it would have to be done.
I don't know about anybody else's take on it but mine is that if you are the site super or onsite project manager you will have to be the problem solver, traffic cop, co-ordination central, warehouse manager, minister, rooting section/cheer leading squad, teacher, father/mother, disciplinarian, team captain and a supreme diplomat all rolled into one ball of wax.
Had one old timer describe those positions as the narrow place in the hour glass that is filled with shid and you have no say how fast it is being turned over, your either standing in it, or it is falling on your head and sometimes both at the same time.
He also pointed out that the narrow place is the choke point and is in control of the entire situation.
But for me , I love it. Nothing like the feeling when it is all done and you can thank each person for helping out by having done their own personal best to make it all happen and having them say they would be happy to work under you again on another project.
Always remember a mouse can eat an elephant one bite at a time.
You nailed it.
2 more thoughts. Retainage ... it's negotiable. many of our projects are 5% and for those that are 10% we usually drop it to 5 when the total project billing hits 90%.
Special inspections ... many cities have recently gone to using special inspectors in addition to their city inspectors. Soem are very good, some are difficult to get along with. These are companies that register with the city as inspectors, and they do much of the work. We use one called ECS that is very good. They check the rebar before th pour, and verify proper eifs installation at every stage, and everything in between. They send an email report to the contractor, the archy, the owner and the city after every visit, so you only see the city inspector at the end of the job. It runs up the cost of the job because they are paid by the gc/owner, it reduces the work load of the city, and ther job usually runs smoothly. So on the one hand it's a good deal, but I see it as a way for the city inspectors to do less and still charge high permit fees."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
a diffence bewteen commerical and resdental. you cannot change the price without approval, and if a sub doesnt show up to complete the work. the law goes get them, to show up. nobody get paid till punchout and the job will get done even on the subs money.
This was a revealing post. Thanks for the insight. Obviously, like any other job, the more you invest in the process, the greater the reward.
Nothing beats on the job training and experience, but are there any books that help reduce the learning curve? Principles and Practices of commercial Construction was required reading for the Contractor's exam, but it didn't really talk about scheduling, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I know how to schedule, it's just learning the subtile differences between residential and commercial.
Mike
I do have a book I came across at Builders Bookstore (an outlet that sells code books, forms, tech books etc). IIRC it was "Hand book for a Commercial Site Superintendent", ( book is packed away right now and can't check title for sure). Pretty simplistic writing style but on the other hand I learned a lot from it about the forms used and expectations that the industry holds for the position. The areas I was personally lacking in are things like rigging, welding, equipment operation and knowing union rules as I was not a union member. Expectations of just what the super is responsible for was another one. That seems to vary from GC to GC as far as my experience and on just what the subs have become accustomed to.
My first project I had the concrete sub mention to me that he was planning his pour for mid morning the next day. I said fine and didn't think another thought about it. Next day just before pour time he is in my face screaming about where is his pump truck , that I was responsible to have set that part of the deal up. News to me as I was accustomed to having the concrete sub set up everything associated with their job!! So I learned to ask what did people need from me .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Excellent picture painted Dovetail! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You not only hit the nail on the head, you glued, screwed, & maybe even welded it, too!
If you are lucky, you aren't responsible for EVERYTHING (and more importantly, your boss realizes you're human). It can be good when the architect is the responsible party....but that has it's downside, if you have to convince him to do something your (e.g. the right! ) way.I am amazed how much time goes into conferences, shop drawings and so on and still things get totally balled up...fabricator ignores shop drawings, walls mysteriously shrink, goods that were received & stored disappear. And that's just the paperwork and materials side. Union battles, goofy AHJs, nose in the air designers....whew.If you can rise above, focus on the goal---a well executed project that will provide for people to work, or play, or live---and get to that goal, it's a heck of a reward.
Thanks, My two best reward has been the clients telling other prospective clients to do what they have to do to hire ME, not necessarily the companies I worked for and the great majority of subs who passed my name on to other GC's as a guy to hire if they got the chance. Most of those subs had been in commercial work almost as long as I had been in residential. Those are some pretty high praises coming from clients and subs. The money I earn is good , but isn't why I do what I do it is almost an added bonus to the deal . I told one client that in my mind my responsibility went to neither the owners nor the GC I was working, for it went to the building I was hired to build , not with my own hands but by leading those who were using theirs and for people like us it is the building that matters. One thing I left out was that the site super is in the position of having to be the GC's voice and eyes, but at the same time has to also be an advocate for the subs when things get tough. Solomon comes to mind.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"my responsibility went to neither the owners nor the GC I was working, for it went to the building I was hired to build , not with my own hands but by leading those who were using theirs and for people like us it is the building that matters"Yep, that's it exactly. Sad to say, lot's of people out there can't "get" that---been at it too long, never cared to begin with, looking to get over, looking out only for their group.
It just keeps getting harder to get a group of people aligned in a common goal. Not that different from all the sectarian religion & politics that keeps the pot boiling...And, often the people above the field guys are so concerned about budget and schedule that they could care less about the human beings involved.
The agc has a superintendant training course. The moswt useful thing about it is the bullet on your resume and the people you meet in the class. Some good material, but I found most of the stuff in the book not worth the time to read it. This was the stuff that could be picked up on the fly. The quality of the instructor is huge. check the agc website.