Replies

1. 
   frenchy | Aug 25, 2008 11:20pm | #1

   Blue

     I normally see tall walls like that vertical.  you can use 12 foot boards and only piece a 2 foot butt at the top were it's difficult to see the joint due to distance..  (unless you know that there will be desks etc.  at the bottom in which case you put the butt  joint on the bottom.. 

    one other reason to put the butt joint at the top, it's easier to get that and  the corner joint than to bend over and get the butt 2 feet from the floor. and still have to get up and do the corner joint..   

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 25, 2008 11:51pm | #2

   Frenchy, we would just order 14' board if we were going to stand it vertical. I'm trying to figure where the commercial guys have their cutoff. I know a lot of them will stand 8, 9 and 10's. Thats how we did it when I spent two years doing tenant work.

2. 
   dustinf | Aug 26, 2008 12:09am | #3

   Honestly, it depends.

   Lighting, windows, ACT or hard lid are the main factors.  Assuming an average or better taper, we'd stand 10's then cut 8's in half to make up the 4.

   Speed is the main consideration, 10' board is a one man job.  14' board is a 2 man job.  A decent taper makes the butt joints a non factor.  Especially because we hang in house, and have the taping bid competitively.  Most taping bids are done by square foot, blind to the amount of butt joints.  We could save labor on the hanging, and the taping is what it is.

   It's not too late, it's never too late.

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 26, 2008 12:54am | #4

   Okay, so you guys would probably cut the 8's in half to create a butt to butt situation at the 10' line. That makes sense to me. The installer will obviously have to have a scaffold set up to install the board so I don't know why they couldn't just roll with 14' ers everywere aside from the fact that one guy can set a 10 by himself. Would that same guy then install the upper 4' sections too or would they team up?This place is going to get the full ceiling drywalled too, so it's going to need more than a one man crew. Heres a copy of the premlim plans. Only the left side is getting boarded. Both sides of the center partition (the one with the angle) will be boarded.

1. 
   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Aug 26, 2008 05:00am | #16

   This place is going to get the full ceiling drywalled too,

   So where do the sprinkler system and the ductwork go?  Is there a space above the 14' ceiling or what?

   The way commercial spaces are usually drywalled is with stand-ups, to just above the level of suspended ceiling, normally from 8'-12'.  Depending on specific codes, these walls might be double rocked, two layers of 5/8" FC.

   A second drywall team does the "topping out", carefully cutting and fitting the vertical pieces around the ductwork, sprinkler lines, conduits and other assorted stuff that gets stuck up in that space. The taping above the suspended ceiling is strickly for fire code, one heavy coat of mud with tape on all seams, cuts and around the various things that transit through those walls.

   The two man team who do the topping out consists of one man on a scaffold, usually a Baker, and the other on the floor, measuring and cutting horizontally against a wall or on a cart. 

    

    

   Edited 8/25/2008 10:04 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 26, 2008 05:29am | #18

   It is trussed construction. I think the trusses are 5/12's.

1. 
   Hudson Valley Carpenter | Aug 26, 2008 05:56am | #21

   In that case I'd definitely go with 14' stand-ups, because of fire code considerations. I'm sure the tapers would much prefer to work without butt joints too.  Two tapers, one on the floor and another on a rolling scaffold, could get around the room very fast that way.  

   They could also do the ceiling pretty easily with a pair of rolling pipe scaffolds, with additional planks between them.  

   The 14s might require some special handling but it wouldn't amount to much, considering the time saved on taping and the assurance that the walls would be perfectly smooth.

    

   Edited 8/25/2008 11:00 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter

2. 
   Shep | Aug 26, 2008 05:04am | #17

   The only problem I see with hanging it vertically is that the edge of steel studs is only about 1-1/4", so if the framing isn't perfect, you could end up having nothing to fasten to as things move along.

   That said, I'd still probably hang it verticle. One guy I used to work with would let the studs float, and only fasten them to the rock. It seemed to work OK.

3. 
   dustinf | Aug 27, 2008 08:20pm | #33

   We'd probably run all the 10's first, just so there weren't any scaffolds in the way.  Go back and cut the 4' pieces to fit under the hard lid.

   Unless the ceiling is under 8' we never lay sheets down.

   With a 12' ACT lid we'd probably run 12's, and drop the lid 2 or 3 inches.  If that weren't an option, we'd run a 3" strip on the floor(assuming base will cover it), and then run the 12's.

   All of this is subject to change based on your needs for fire rating.It's not too late, it's never too late.

2. 
   Robrehm | Aug 26, 2008 12:55am | #5

   What Dustin said.  HOw open is the ceiling? HOw open is the space? Is there room fr a drywall cart? 3 man team? I would ask your drywall contractor before commiting. WE stand up 12's alot, I'm thinking 3 men & a drywall cart should be efficiant if there is room to work."this dog may be old but he ain't cold. And he still knows how to bury a bone."

   Lattimore

    

   http://www.rehmodeling.com

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 26, 2008 12:55am | #6

   I just posted the plan. It's pretty wide open.

1. 
   arcflash | Aug 26, 2008 01:02am | #7

   I've heard that sheetrock hung vertical is weaker than horizontal, and that it even adds a small amount of structural intergrity. Any pros care to commment here?

   I've also hung and taped enough to know that the best way to hang and finish wallboard is the most effecient and cost effective way. I don't do it every day, though!

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 26, 2008 01:10am | #8

   This building is standing quite well without the interior partitions. The drywall will be installed and it's main duty is to hold the paint. Either horizontal or vertical will be plenty strong enough to hold that paint skin up there.

2. 
   Robrehm | Aug 26, 2008 01:30am | #9

   talk to your sub & see what he prefers but I would stand them up on something that open. Use  3 or 4 man crew. the bigger question.........what are you fastening to for the ceiling? Bar joist 24" or more on center ain't gonna cut it.  Sounds like lots of hat channel. I wouldn't go off the drawings, I'd field verify what is there. there is money to be made in commercial but the bullies are bigger and the owners & realtors have more snake oil than a politician..  "this dog may be old but he ain't cold. And he still knows how to bury a bone."

   Lattimore

    

   http://www.rehmodeling.com

3. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 26, 2008 02:35am | #11

   We are attaching the drywall directly to the underside of the trusses.

4. 
   mikerooney | Aug 26, 2008 02:21am | #10

   Here in D.C., anything over 12' is a special order.
   I would lay 'em down - quicker to hang and finish.''Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.'' Plato

    

5. 
   bjbatlanta | Aug 26, 2008 02:46am | #12

   First off, are you hanging 1/2" or 5/8"?? I don't think I'd try to stand up 14' x 1/2". You may end up wearing it, or taking more time than it's worth to finesse it into place with a couple of guys. I've stood up 5/8" x 12' all day by myself (in my younger days) with another guy running the screw gun. Two man crew is all you need. I haven't seen 14' x 5/8" in this area (maybe special order). It would be a SOB to stand up for one guy if it's available.......... If you're using 3-5/8" studs, I would hope you're using 5/8" rock to give your wall some rigidity anyway. Put the butt joint on top.

6. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 26, 2008 02:50am | #13

   I'm not doing any of the work. The drywall crews are. The studs are 6" metal: floor to ceiling. Good point about finding 14' 5/8" type x. I hadn't even thought about the availability. I'll call around tomorrow. TX is different. They have some stuff that I'm used to seeing and never heard of other stuff.

7. 
   bjbatlanta | Aug 26, 2008 03:04am | #14

   In 35 years of drywall work, I've never seen a piece of 5/8" x 14'. Doesn't mean you can't get it.... and these days 14' x 1/2" is a chore for me to get on the wall by myself. (Laying it down, 8' ceiling.) I was hoping you'd say you are using 6" studs. Yeah, in different parts of the country you find different things. I've heard of 16' drywall (even recently on other blogs), but I've never seen or hung any. I heard the biggest problem was stocking it. The forks on the boom weren't wide enough and it would break getting it off of the truck. Good luck!

8. 
   frammer52 | Aug 26, 2008 04:03am | #15

   !6" is common around here at the drywall supply house.  They are heavy!

9. 
   alwaysoverbudget | Aug 26, 2008 05:39am | #20

   here 16's ar very common at the suppliers. i just hung some 54" x 16 on the clg,they  call it strechboard.i cheated with a drywall jack:]    larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?

10. 
    ruffmike | Aug 27, 2008 04:57am | #23

    I work for a commercial drywall company in Ca. we hang rock by the semitruck.

    We would probably railroad (lay down) that job. Usually only stand up board if it is getting t-bar.

    We don't get 14's out here, never seen them in 25 years. We do use 54" board at times.

    Out here if we stand up board and have to put a butt to top it out, in a fire rated assembly we require backing at that butt joint.                            Mike

        Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.

11. 
    Jim_Allen | Aug 27, 2008 05:16am | #24

    Thanks Mike. I was waiting for your reply. Anyways, the plans been changed. The ceiling is now acoustical and will be installed at 12' mark. I guess that means 12' board stood up.

12. 
    Jim_Allen | Aug 27, 2008 05:17am | #25

    Or railroaded. I'll let the installers tell me.

13. 
    ruffmike | Aug 27, 2008 05:23am | #26

    We would start out with a 24" rip to avoid a seam at 12'. But I'm sure they'll do you good. I've rarely seen rock falling off the walls. ; ^ )                            Mike

        Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.

14. 
    Jim_Allen | Aug 27, 2008 05:31am | #27

    So, I'm understanding that you'd still run the 12' walls horizontally, then start with a 2' rip. Then, when you add two full sheets, you'd finish with a 2' rip. This, I assume, is to eliminate the beveled edge that would interfere with the wall angle and/or require taping at the top?

15. 
    mikerooney | Aug 27, 2008 06:11am | #29

    2' plus three 4' sheets puts you at 14'.
    But it would save some muddin'._______
    /_|o[____]o
    [1---L-OllllllO-
    ()_)()_)=°°=)_)

    Edited 8/26/2008 11:17 pm ET by MikeRooney

16. 
    Jim_Allen | Aug 27, 2008 05:32am | #28

    Could I just lobby the owner to set the ceiling at 11'-10"?

17. 
    ruffmike | Aug 27, 2008 06:12am | #30

    That is a good idea, dropping the lid 4" or so, then you only have to finish two seams 4' and 8'.                            Mike

        Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.

18. 
    BUIC | Aug 27, 2008 06:31am | #31

    Jim,

       I'm going to assume there's some kind of base going on the wall.  4" vinyl or something?

      We sometimes run a 2" strip at the floor, stand up the 12's, then put your wall angle at 12'.

      OR, You are holding your rock up 1/2" so it won't wick moisture up from the concrete, right?  You could still put the ceiling at 11' 11 1/2" and have the wall angle on solid backing. Assuming a 1/2" among friends is OK with the tenant...buic

       PS, We'd usually do the later.  I don't like not being able to screw the bottom of the board to the track. The wall resists racking much better when you catch the track.

      

    Edited 8/26/2008 11:32 pm ET by BUIC

19. 
    Jim_Allen | Aug 27, 2008 06:41am | #32

    I like both ideas and will certainly discuss each one with the owner. I don't think they will object to the ceiling at 11' 11" if the installers run the board vertical. If they run the board horizontal, I'll go with the 2" rip idea and hide that seam under the 4-6" trim that is planned. There isn't any need for "extra" racking resistance. The walls will be fastened securely to the trusses. We can run a few diagonal braces above the ceiling for rack resistance.

3. 
   IBI | Aug 26, 2008 05:38am | #19

   Without a doubt you have to stand all drywall in 99% of commercial application. Fire code requires that any joint must be backed by a piece of steel. A taped joint is not sufficient. Ask your inspector! You also have to stagger your joints on opposite sides of the studs.

   http://www.multichambernailgun.com/b2/
1. 
   mikerooney | Aug 26, 2008 01:59pm | #22

   I've done a movie theater and a couple churches that were all hung horizontal.''Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.'' Plato