Replies

1. 
   James_DuHamel | Dec 27, 2001 03:49am | #1

   *
   No matter what the "average" installation per hour, your time is gonna be a LOT more. First time installation of a product is always gonna take longer.

   I use Hardi siding products. I like their feel better, and when using my shears, it doesn't crumble like Cemplank or some of the others. It just cuts smooth and clean.

   Do some local research and find out what trim products are available in your area. Bad time to find out you can't get what you want or need is when you start the job.

   Good luck. I can't get any more specific on the particulars of your job because I am not there looking at it, and I do not know how you spec'd it.

   James DuHamel

1. 
   Ross_ | Dec 27, 2001 09:34pm | #2

   *Thanks for your response and yes I am aware of the performance curve factor when using new materials, however when I use a new product it would not be fair or prudent to charge the client for my education. It would also be difficult to compete with others who have used the product. I am hoping to use an Industry standard $ and prepared to see a profit curve as well. The building has a total of 4000 sq.ft. the trim is specified local rough milled Western Red Cedar.What type of shears do you use? Ross McPhee

1. 
   Mike_Smith | Dec 27, 2001 09:42pm | #3

   *ross...<<>>why would that be...?and who are you competing against....nobody...we use Certainteed .. we like the product better than the Hardie... more pronounced pattern...nobody is flying with this stuff.. will you use a 3 man crew?.. is it all cut up... can you stage it or do you have to fight the bushes...?stop competing against the boogey man.. he doesn't exist....or do you mean that someone is going to give them a "better " price ?

1. 
   Ross_ | Dec 29, 2001 12:53am | #4

   *Dear Mike I find your response confusing to say the least. "why would that be...?" "why" what? fair, prudent, difficult?and who are you competing against....nobody... as I stated in my first message, I am bidding this job. No not against the boogy man! Am I missing something here? Are you speaking some kind of "slang"? If you have nothing to contribute please refrain from clutteringthis great this space!Ross

1. 
   Mike_Smith | Dec 29, 2001 01:51am | #5

   *sorry ross, thot you were asking for help on Fiber Cement siding...if you want to make a contribution to your customer, why don't you just take out your checkbook and give him a check..?and tell him , "thanks for letting me learn how to install FiberCement siding on your house"now.. is it cut up ?is it hard to stage.. can you work a 3 man crew ?do you have nail guns .. do you have shears or a makita cement saw....?how will it be delivered to the job ? can you spread it out around the house? how many squares, what's the exposure?what will you do for trim? how do you end it .. at a freize .. or at the soffit ?build it in your head and double it... but i see no reason why you shouldn't charge for every hour you think you will put in to the job...b but hey, whadda i no ?

2. 
   James_DuHamel | Dec 29, 2001 04:44am | #6

   *Ross,I use the Porter Cable #6604 shears. They are WONDERFUL, in my opinion. Once you get used to them, they are fast, accurate, and create an extremely low amount of dust (nothing like a power saw does).Unfortunately, there is no industry standard for installing cement siding. At least not here. Prices can be a great deal different on the same specs. Each contractor brings a different approach, different ideas, and different methods into the mix, so each contractor is gonna be pricing his company different. Charge whatever you think you need to. Do not worry about what the other guy is gonna bid, concentrate on the amount you need in order to make this job worthwhile for your company. I can say this, whatever amount of time you think it will take, DOUBLE it. Then add your profit that you want, and submit your bid. Sell the customer your company, not the job. The other guy is probably selling the job, so already you will be approaching this whole thing in a different manner. Just a thought...James DuHamel

3. 
   Mad_Dog | Dec 29, 2001 05:15pm | #7

   *Hi Ross,Mike's got a lot of good points. It only looks confusing because he types so much, he can't look after mistakes, and he shortens words for the same reason.But he's the man. His system is FOOL PROOF for making money with cement board siding...Good luck. I can't estimate this either. I can estimate a roof in 5 minutes. Siding, well, it takes a calculator, and about 3 hours of thinking.MD

4. 
   GN_Letourneau | Jan 01, 2002 03:37am | #8

   *Ross,FWIW, I, too, read the article in Fine Homebuilding. It did not help too much (I just installed about 1500 pieces of 12' Hardiplank.) The part about pre-drilling the corners is correct. However, I couldn't get the pieces as level as I wanted working on my own (plus they are a little heavy) Two guys working together could put up about 70+ pieces a day. That was the first time I installed the Hardiplak though. Make yourself a jig to help with the spaceing and you shuld be able to cruise along pretty well. Do, however, pay attention to the spacing recomendations and cualking guidleins, in the article.As far as pricing goes, can't help too much. However, if the specs call for Hardiplank, don't quote something else, you might get caught half-way through the install and have to rip everything out. However, DON'T leave money on the table. Charge what you think it's worth to the customer, not what it's worth to another carpenter.Good luck, hope I helped.Gerry

5. 
   Dave_Richeson | Jan 01, 2002 07:24pm | #9

   *Gerry "Charge what you think its worth to the customer?"Charge what it is worth to your company. If the customer can't afford your work, you can't afford to work for that customer!I might negotiate a little with a customer, but never come down below what I need to make money. Been there,done that, almost went broke.Dave

6. 
   GN_Letourneau | Jan 01, 2002 09:12pm | #10

   *Dave, Thanks for clarifying.I did not mean to suggest that one should take a job at a loss. I assumed that is (or should be) understood. I wrote "Don't leave money on the table" Meaning, do not be afraid to charge for what your services are worth. I strongly agree with you that if a customer is not willing to pay you what you believe the job is worth, you should walk. Your time will be much better spent finding customers who are willing to pay for your quality service.

2. 
   Ross_ | Jan 01, 2002 09:12pm | #11

   *
   I'm bidding a job which calls for "Hardi Plank" siding. I've installed lots of wooden siding, but never any composite. I read the great article in FH #137 by Mark Averill Snyder on installation so I feel comfortable with that aspect. My questions are #1 For estimating purposes can anyone suggest an amount (sq.ft or lin.ft) that an average carpenter should be able to install per/hr. The building is 2 story, level ground, solid wood trim.
   #2 Options for "Smart Lap" and "Certainteed" are these products pretty much the same, installation differences? Any other tips for making the job go smoothly? Thanks Ross McPhee