Good evening all. This is my first time on a forum so please bear with me. I’m hoping someone can give me some advice on buying a compound miter saw. I have a few questions and would really appreciate some help.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Inspired by Larry Haun, this passionate framer is teaching a new generation of builders.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Hi Mike,
Don't be nervous...cause we're all nervous enough here already.
What questions do you have for us?
Thanks for the support. I'm going to install 5 1/4 inch maple plank T&G flooring (wife says it's the 'heritage look'). I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a decent saw since I'm covering 850 sq. ft.
The problem is that whatever saw I buy will probably not get much use after this job. I've renovated just about every square inch of our house now and this should finish it off so I don't want to invest a small fortune in a saw.
I've looked at a Craftsman 10" at Sears, comes with bench and clamps, cuts 5 1/2". Or, the fellow I'm getting the wood from has offered me his Makita 10" for the same price. Obviously the Makita is a few years old but I know he takes care of his tools.
Is the Makita that much of a better make and would it be a better buy? Also, if the planks are 5 1/4, am I cutting it to close (sorry for the pun) in buying a saw the cuts a max of 5 1/2?
Edited 9/19/2002 9:52:21 PM ET by Mike
Well Mike, I’m probably the last guy you ought to be talking to right now cause I’d advise you to spend some real $$$ and get yourself a sliding compound miter saw…. specifically the most expensive one of the lot……a DeWalt 12â€. See..I told ya that you wouldn’t be happy with me. I can give you some good reasons to buy a SCMS but that’s not what you’re here to talk about so I’ll stop for now. If you do decide to buy one of these DeWalt’s, let me know by posting back or e-mailing me and I’ll give you some seriously important info about picking one out.
Now on to your question………here too you’re going to be disappointed in what I have to tell you. I know nothing of the Craftsman saw and therefore can’t do a comparison. I can tell you that the Makita is a high quality tool and if this fella has cared for and not abused the saw, it’ll be worthy of your task. I’d run this one test anyway on the saw………start it and hold the blade guard up and out of the way while you watch the blade coast to a stop. You’re looking for wobble in the outer edge of the blade, which would likely indicate bearing problems. If I could see the saw firsthand and knew more about the Craftsman saw, I’d feel better about making a “buy this or that†recommendation.
As to cutting capacity………..if you’re covered for width, then you’re covered for width. It’s about that simple. One thing to bear in mind tho….if that capacity is rated with a new blade on it and the blade currently mounted has seen several sharpenings, it could leave you a skosh shy of that. I’d take a piece of 5 ½â€stock over to the saw and see what happens.
Now…..just think about what that 12†SCMS would cut for you!! Both now and forever more! Alright…I’ll stop now.
I’m sure there’s going to be more guys along shortly to give you their recommendations. All you have to do is wait and they’ll come. Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I'm starting to think I need to win a lottery! Actually I did look at a sliding model made by Bosh (did I get that right?) but again where do you draw the line on price. Pretty well all of my woodworking experience has been done with hand tools or the 30 yr old Black & Decker skill so I'm not up to date on who is making decent power tools. It's good to know the Makita is worth looking at. He says he'll include a new Hitachi (I think that was the one?) finishing blade with it.
I guess the only advantage to the Craftsman is that it's from Sears so if you don't like it, you take it back (and I only live 2 blocks from the store).
I really appreciate the help and advice. Thanks again.
Mike,
Try this article from jlconline.com and see if it helps. It's a free article from the research section on power tools.
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/3d8a88820003fbeb271a401e1d290637/Product/View/0002comp
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Mike. If all you're cutting are the pcs. to the wall, I agree with phill, a circular saw would work. Might be tiring on the wrist, bending over to pick it up, etc. So how bout a table saw? You probably have one of those already. Use it free hand or use the mitre attachment. If the ends are not T & G, then you bet for sure get a mitre box, compound if necessary for the width of your work. Best of luck.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
1) You don't need a CMS for a DIY flor job, a circular saw and jig will work fine.
2) Consider renting, at least price it out.
3) Ridgid
4) Dewalt 705S.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Hi Mike ...just a different take on your question, I think you should buy the best available 12in compound miter saw. " I will PROBABLY not get much use after this job".got to look at it like I did it once I can do it again and somebody going to see your work ask if you could do the same for them . If you need to justify cost , think of the cost of subing it out and most important you deserve a personal reward fo what you have done and what you are going to do.On second thought a 12in sliding compound miter would be better covers some of the other questions about cutting width and its a tool you would never consider getting rid of after you use it . I think ther was a commercial about potato chips that said "bet you can't eat just one" face it your hooked . Time to start thinking about your next house have fun and good building to you .
Dear Mike:
Why not get a really good saw like the DEWALT 12 SCMS and then sell it when your project is done. If you buy it new for 600 or so, I am sure that you can sell it in like new condition for $400-450 when you are done with your flooring project. You get to use a great tool to finish your project and the guy buying your saw gets to save 25% on something that never goes on sale. Sounds like a win-wi situation to me.
Best of Luck,
Jeff
Buy the best at a Home dildo, clean it up when your done, and return it. Just don't return it in the original box because as my luck goes I'll probably buy it.:)Oh yea, save the receipt!
Mike- What nails said is true. You might feel about finished now but how long will it be before the need or itch for something comes around again. My prediction is not much time. A compound miter saw of 12inch handles a whole lot without a lot of extra expense. Especially for the presently DIYer that will always be subject to change. A small amount of more cash on a purchase price can get you a better performer for the workhorse. I've a dewalt cms12inch for years now and have no trouble with it.
Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Forget the primal scream, just Roar!
Agree with just about everything above:
Get the Dewalt
You'll use it more later, you just don't know it yet
Buy a replacement blade if you want nice cuts
If you have to part with it, don't take it to HD - I'll be the idiot that ends up with it.
Cheap tools = cheap work
I can't believe all the help everyone has given me on this topic. It's pretty incredible. First off, I want to thank everyone (I know, sounds like an award show!), I've learned a lot from all your opinions. There are considerations I never would have thought of.
I'm going to pick up the maple T & G flooring tomorrow and will look at the used Makita (with the finishing blade) simply because the price is so good. If that doesn't pan out I'm going to check out the DeWalt.
I really like the suggestion that I treat myself with some of the money I'm saving by doing this job myself, and buy a really nice saw. Unfortunately my wife thought of that first! The new living room furniture came today! Now I'm being reminded we are on a budget for this project. Amazing how that works!
Thanks again to all of you, I'll let you know the outcome. (besides if I run into trouble laying the flooring, now I know where to go)
Mike
850 ft sq isn't a whole lot...but you're gonna need a table saw too, right...so just get a crappy little table saw and use the miter gauge for the cross cuts.
Spend the money on a nice sharp blade of two.
And depending how long you figure the project taking........rent. But still invest in a decent blade.
A good compromise might be to check out reconditioned tools......Tool Crib thru the amazon site has a good selection.......and most local tool repair shops will have what ya need for a good price too.
If you're just gonna do it once...for flooring...I'd get the cheapest saw's with the best blades. 850 ft sq isn't gonna burn anything out. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Thanks Jeff.
Actually, I'm going to look at a used Makita today. The guy I'm getting the flooring from is selling his (he's upgrading). He retired from our local Police last year (I'm still at it for a few more years) and started his wood business (his dream). I know he takes good care of his tools and obviously I trust him so I don't mind going with a used saw from him (price still has to be right though).I plan on taking my time with this project which is why I'm doing it myself. I told my wife if it takes all winter, so what. That made the decision to buy a saw.
so U gonna tell us where U are so we can cash in a speeding ticket if need be?
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Jeff:
Sorry to take so long answering. I'm in Ottawa, Ont. Canada. Can't do a darn thing about tickets though. I work firearms.
If you have any 'left over' single action colts or nice .45cal break top schofields you'd like to have removed from Canada I'd be happy to give them a new home ;-) (I know you can't do it, but it'd make me feel better to give 'em a good home instead of having them 'put down' by a chopper and furnace)
That's ok....my days of rowdy behavior in Toronto are a few years behind me!
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Good thing Jeff...my brothers a cop in Toronto! Goes right by the book...would have given our own mother a ticket! Matter of fact, he pulled over a priest that taught us in high school, on christmas eve no less, and wrote him up for running a stop sign.
Your safer in Ottawa.
I hear the crime ratre is much lower in Ottawa Mike. I thought it was because the criminals only speak French, the victims only speak English, and by the time it's been communicated that you're being robbed the police have arrived; however, a friend from Stonecliff told me it's because all the illegal handguns come from the US and don't have bilingual labeling on the "safety"..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Phil. Haven't heard one that good in a while! I'd better write that one down (don't seem to have much of a memory these days).
I'm just about ready to start this flooring job. All the folks here have given me excellent advice and pointers. Made some new friends, good people. On one hand this job scares the hell out of me, on the other hand, If I screw it up I'll have some of the nicest looking firewood at the campgroung next summer!
Really though, I think I've done my homework, got the right tools and materials and if I take my time I should be OK. If I get into trouble at least now I have some new friends that can tell me how to get out of it.
I think all the cops in To are by the book! At least they used to be.
I still remember the first time I saw all the computer equip attached to the dash......those cruisers were years ahead of ours.
...and I've had the pleasure of being pulled over by the best in both countries!
Get a table saw for the floor job......be like a real floor guy and find the most beat little guy you can......carry it upstairs with one finger and piss off all the trim guys......drop if down from about waist height.......and rip away!
remember...you're a floor guy now......absolutely no saw horses....and always bend at the waist...none of this "save the back and bend at the knee's" stuff!
It's all done bent over....hurts me just to watch.
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Here's a question for any real flooring guys listeneing. The first room I'm doing is 12 x 25. The flooring will run length wise so that it is perpendicular to the joist. When I lay the first 2-3 rows, do I have to go the full 25 ft or can I go half way and then start working across the width of the room? Do I have to lay the full length of each row, working end to end in the room.
Mike
Snap a line for the front edge of the first course.
Nail entire first two courses with a finish nailer
Then rack the room in a pyramid
work on the diagonal
keep your butts at least 3'' apart
Our floor guy will rack the entire room before he picks up the flooring nailer. He's hardcore tho!
Use a cordless saw for your cuts at the end.
Whap whap bam bam bam bam
whap whap bam bam bam
whap wahp bam bam bam
Rock and roll ..........
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Jeff:
I'm going to pick up my wood flooring today. I've been thinking about that table saw idea. I'm getting to old to do things the hard way. Any recommendations? Should I look at a small table top style or something with a full stand? Any features in particular I should watch out for?
Mike
All depends on what the saw's gonna be used for.
If just this one floor job.....not much of a saw will be needed. For flooring.......almost all rips will be covered by shoe...if not both base and shoe.....so that'll give ya alot of wiggle room as far as bad cuts go!
Most cross cuts will get covered the same way..so same goes there too. If just this one floor is all ya need...get the cheapest saw you can find and put the best combo blade in it you can afford.
Aside from power...which you won't need much of....a good saw just comes down to ease of use...mainly the fence. Find a cheaper one where the fence still holds tight....that's half the battle right there. Any cheapie you get you'll have to set the fence....and measure the front and back of the fence for square to the blade.
A better saw might self align for ya.....but that's a good bit of up charge.....to aviod learning how to set a fence. I grew up with crappy Craftsman saws.....you can get a decent Craftsman or Delta for about $150....maybe less.......I use my saw running custom trim and building built-ins everyday.....so the $500 for the DeWalt made sense to me.....and I paid all that for a nice, easy to adjust fence!
I'd say crawl before ya run.......fight with a cheap one...then you'll love the better saw if you go that route.
About 5 years ago, I had a buddy with no woodworking experience decide to take up boat building in his basement. He got a "Promark"....or maybe "Proline"....table saw and chop saw.....they're about the cheapest out there......painted yellow and black to mimic DeWalt......all he had to cut was thin ply and the occasional 1x......
He's since built at least one sail boat per winter...and he's still using that same cheap as hell shop set up. He just took my advice after burning thru some wood and spent the money on decent blades.
Good luck and remember.....you're having fun!
Count yer fingers before ya start..and count them after...if the number's the same...reward yourself with a cold beer.
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Thanks Jeff:
I picked up my flooring yesterday and I mentioned to him that I was thinking of getting a table saw. Wait here he says, goes in the shed and comes out with a 10" blade table saw. Says 'it's my old one, Merry Christmas'. I haven't even looked to see what make it is but I got home, plugged it in and it cuts great. Has a nice good quality blade in it. He told me to watch the fence since it might not be as tight as it should and that was it.
Until it burns out, I have a free saw. And don't I wish I could buy one up here for $150.....nothing under $300! Isn't the canadian dollar doing just great!!!
Hey...ya won the lotto!
The "old cheap ones" are much better than the "new cheap ones"!
It'll probably last ya for years......at least long enough to learn to hate it and learn what you want from a new one. Remember to count.
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
A litle late to chime in but, I have a Dewalt 12" scms and I have a Makita 10" for about 10 years now. I've had to replace a few parts on the Makita but I still use it on some smaller jobs when I dont want to or need to bring out the 12". I can't say enough about the Makita.
Bob
Thanks Bob. Nice to know I picked a saw with a good reputation. Considering what I paid, I think I did very well. Mind you, I looked at the new DeWalts and I have to admit I like the design better than the Makita.
Just read your post Mike, You wont be sorry. The Dewalts are better now. They were'nt around when I bought the Makita.
Good luck!
Bob
Ditto Jeff's advice about the Tool Crib/Amazon tools ........... new tool warranty. Check it out ............. will give you a baseline to compare prices to.
Mike,
A Makita miter saw is a good one. This should work just fine. I own a Hitachi SCMS, which i dearly love, but for what you are doing, the Makita will do a good job for you; so long as you have a nice finishing blade attached. It's better to get a carbide tooth blade with no less than 40 or 50 teeth on the blade. The more teeth, the smoother the cut.
Do you own a table saw? You will ned one. Some flooring will most certainly have to be ripped full length. Rooms never work out to an even number of full width pieces.
If you don't have one, perhaps your friend can do the ripping at his workshop for you.
LOL.
Davo
With a little planning, all of your rip cuts will end up against a wall and under some trim. Although a table saw would be easier/faster, a circular saw is good enough..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
The Makita has an excellent finishing blade in it. Didn't count 'em but has lots of teeth! I'll put it this way, the guy I got it from wouldn't tell his wife how much the blade cost. I've tried some cuts with it and they come out looking like someone has already sanded it with very fine paper.
Table saw...now there's another tool I wish I had bought 20 years ago! Already have the skill saw so we won't even start that discussion. Besides my neighbour has one.
I purchased a Bosch miter saw about a year and half ago for a crown molding project I was doing. SInce then I've used the saw for various things and I can say honestly that I think I got the best bang for my buck with the Bosch. I also have an orbital sander and a drill from the same company and am happy with all. I like the quality and the heft, and the fact that I bought them all for far less than I would have paid for DeWalt or Porter-Cable (for instance). These are fine tools, but in the saw area they're not any better.
The which SCMS to buy question always gets at least 20 or 25 replies.
I went through the same dilemma a year ago and bought the 10" Makita.
Have yet to find a cut it doesn't have capacity for - But then I haven't done any large Crown molding. I put it on the Delta MS stand - the one with the large wheels and in/outfeed rollers. Love that setup.
All I'd say is-- before you buy a 12" look at the blade prices. Then look at the 10" blade prices.
Good luck!
Peter
Who adheres to the rule about not buying Craftsman if it has a cord attached to it - but they do have that laser guide MS now.....