Concerned about rot complaints in clad windows
I’m window shopping for my log cottage. The place is on a lake in northern Michigan so it’s exposed to more than the typical amount of wind, rain & snow. The house is exposed full logs inside with siding on the exterior so clad windows with clear pine interior seems the likely choice for a traditional look. In doing my online browsing & review-reading I’m turning up a lot of complaints from people experiencing rotting of the sash underneath the cladding. Seems water can get underneath & destroy the pine sash and go unnoticed for years. It appears to be a bigger problem with aluminum-clad than for vinyl or fiberglass.
Has anyone had to replace windows early due to this problem? Is this a “you get what you pay for” thing or does it affect all brands/prices?
I do take online complaints with a grain of salt as it’s rare for anyone to post any good experiences — but frankly this does seem likely and you can’t tell by looking at an assembled window if it’s really sealed underneath.
Replies
Mach
There have been several repairs or replacements I've made over the years with just the problem you describe.
Craftline-now defunct. Gave that one the name-crapline.
Caradco-now owned by Jeldwen. Gave that one-carapco.
in the late 80's-Marvin had problems mainly with their unclad casements-poor/wrong/whatever, preservative treatment of their jambs/sash. Settled fairly for a bit, then kept reducing the benefit and might have ended it totally by now.
I have marvin casements in my house of the same vintage-held my breath for a while-but it appears my clad units are not of the same dipping.
Pella, for many years they clad their sash what I would consider wrong-the overlaps caught water (at miters in the cladding), now they produce them with top down overlapping of the cladding.
Several other regional brands I've repaired or replaced as well-usually these from small gaps that appear in the glass to sash sealants, thus rotting the sash from the inside and yes, you don't notice till it's too late.
If you are concerned, one way is using only vinyl or fibreglass windows/frames and detailing the installation properly.
I have not had problems with nor had to do any repairs that I can remember on Andersen windows (other than sash balancers, parts, etc. They have a composite line that might catch your interest.
Marvin and Pella may have the same type of composite frame and sash-feel free to check it out.
I have literally repaired or replaced over a hunded Pella sashes in the past dozen years because of that wrong lap. Never any hellp from the company. Good that they finally dealt with the primary issue.
I did not know they do a composite window now. I have been very happy installing a lot of the Marvin Integrity units and recommend them with confidence. I havve been lucky enough to not have had to deal with any of those Marvin call backs. The preservative treat company ( PPG I think) helped pay for a lot of those failures in both Marvin and Andersen because it was the Govt mandated change to their insufficient product that cause the problems.
"may have"
you know window companies..................................best to check with them or have a pretty damn good memory (or be in the position of using windows regularly ((which I don't)) ).
Take Andersen for instance-you hear they have a vinyl window-they do but it's from a company they purchased. Not overly keen with what I saw either. A shame if companies expand their line w/o raising the product to reflect the name behind it.
Clad Windows
Pella is an excellent choice, installed some 25-30 years ago with no cladding problems, just the wear and tear type of problems with hardware. Also, check out this company, also with excellent results-http://www.loewen.com/. These are available with cvg fir on the interior, very attractive.
Good Luck!!
Unfortunately, this is not a get what you pay for scenario.
Pella windows are pretty costly and they are amoung the worst. Their sashes have the bottom corner of the metal cladding lapped wrong to face uphill and collect water.
"The preservative treat
Not sure I understand what you mean. If the window mfr. doesn't properly seal the assembly why should the company that makes the wood preservative (a 2nd-level of defense) get the blame?
Mach
As I understood the claims and settlement issue with Marvin-
Marvin maintained the preservative failed, thus the windows rotted. This was seen in their non clad windows mainly but there were also claims made on the clad as well. Not sure about Andersen's situation.
I'm sure your take was part of the defense given by PPG.
If you've looked closely at window installs over the years, often the painters "miss" many areas of sash and jamb. And install instructions in the 80's were much more simplified than the guidelines we've come to expect now. Best practice at that time was caulking the nailing fins...............
Way simplified an explanation (google late 80's Marvin lawsuits for a much more detailed examination).
Pella's problem with the wrong overlap might be a case where their casement sash for instance, didn't need to be "handed" during manufacture. You could flip it end for end or even sideways for a hopper window to work, with no consideration as to cladding on the sides to bottom rail and top rail to sides overlapping (properly).