Replies

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Oct 03, 2004 09:18pm | #1

   Rob,

   Why the love for concrete?  Granite in standard sizes passed (finished in) though China can be had for a song.

   WSJ

1. 
   robteed | Oct 04, 2004 01:18am | #2

   Do you have a web link for this stone?

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Oct 05, 2004 01:58am | #3

   DIY Granite 

   http://www.doityourselfgranite.com/

   WSJ

1. 
   pvaman | Oct 06, 2004 05:15am | #4

   bullnose...$60/ln ft...ouch

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Oct 06, 2004 11:20pm | #8

   Bob,

   "bullnose...$60/ln ft...ouch"

   I don't know, for the DIY HO with no connections, $21.65 sq/ft for a finished slab of granite (including delivery) isn't bad.

   Jon

2. 
   Clay | Oct 06, 2004 07:04am | #5

   Frankly I get it locally ... cut, polished, edged, delivered, and installed here for as little as $25 to $30 per square foot. 

1. 
   Isamemon | Oct 12, 2004 12:00am | #21

   wow

   great price

   are you talking real granite at these prices

   cut,polished,edged, delivered and installed for under 30 a sq ft

   not around here, run 60 minimum

   after going to the last homeshow , my wife wants concrete countertops ion the utility room and mud room.

   she says her grandmoms house in New Jersey had them when she was a kid ( now 39+++)

2. 
   Clay | Oct 12, 2004 06:50am | #22

   Yes that's real granite.  Not every type stone is available at that price but I can get a wide selection ... it's a bargain price here too though.  A smaller family run yard, pretty reliable and nice quality.  You can easily get quotes at double their prices here too.  I have sold a lot of their granite ... corian just doesn't make sense when it costs the same or even more (not to me anyway).

2. FHB Editor
   JFink | Oct 18, 2004 06:28pm | #31

   "Granite in standard sizes passed (finished in) though China can be had for a song."

    

   Jon....I don't even know what this means...."If God didn't want me to wear this Led Zeppelin shirt everyday he wouldn't have made them rock out so hard"

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Oct 19, 2004 12:19am | #32

   JF,

   What I was trying to say was that there are a number of sources selling pre-finished, standard size granite countertops that have had all the finish work done in China prior to arrival here in the USA.  These imported slabs are relatively cheap compared to the traditional way of getting them, which is to hire a local custom fabricator/installer, at local labor rates.

   Rather than a rough slab from Asia, Africa of Europe heading straight here, many now make a stopover in China for cheap, albeit standardized finishing.

   Just pointing out that at prices as low as $20.00ish sq/ft delivered to your door, granite is now a economical alternative to concrete.

   Jon

2. 
   alexpesta | Oct 06, 2004 10:01pm | #6

   I've made concrete counters for several clients and, when it came time, put them in my own house. I can post some pics if you'd like. If you like the look, go for it. Be wary of someone that says 'you won't like the look' - chances are, when they think of concrete, a sidewalk comes to their feable mind.

1. 
   robteed | Oct 08, 2004 05:47am | #9

   Sure, post some pics of the countertops you made.Did you set them right

   ontop of the cabinets or put 3/4" plywood/partical board first?

1. 
   alexpesta | Oct 08, 2004 04:11pm | #10

   here are some pictures of the final product; we ended up with an undermount sink from kindred; we created a drainage trouch (more for aesthetics than anything else) that aligns with a strip of mahagony set in the maple cutting board.

   being an architect (and married to another one), my wife and i have no money. so, we did all the work ourselves. the process is kind of long when you consider the mould making, but totally worth it. we MADE those things...from scratch.

   let me know if you want any more pics or suggestions.

1. 
   ChrisV | Oct 08, 2004 06:11pm | #13

   Hi ALex,

   I will be gutting the kitchen within a year or so and never considered concrete counter tops, but after looking at your pics, I am impressed. More pics and details on how you went about it would be great!. I have poured concrete many times in the past but for your standard sidewalk application.

   Thanks,

   Chris

1. 
   alexpesta | Oct 08, 2004 11:25pm | #15

   Chris,

   I would gladly email you more pics and give you my two-cents worth. I have done three bathrooms and two kitchens worth- plus about 30 desk tops for an office in cincinnati.

   In my experience, the kitchen counters tend to be hardest since you want to end up with the least amount of surface imperfections due to cleaning, etc. But, I have learned a lot from my mistakes and experiences (luckily, the only pieces I have had to re-do were my own).

   Where are you located?

2. 
   kestrel | Oct 09, 2004 01:39am | #16

   Alex,

   I'd also love to see any other pictures and any advise you have.  I'm probably not alone it that so could you post them here?  It could be a new thread in the photo gallery.

   My husband and I are planning on concrete countertops in the house we're building.  We have Fu-Teng Cheng's book, and will get his new book as soon as it is released.  He is inspiring.

   kestrel

3. 
   oak | Oct 11, 2004 08:03pm | #20

   kestrel...

   i have hundreds of pictures of concrete countertops...  not any step by step pictures, but just pictures i have collected around the internet of the past couple years.

   if you send me an email (or anyone for that matter), i can provide you a link to them..

   oak

4. 
   ChrisV | Oct 09, 2004 01:56am | #18

   Alex,

   I am located in AZ.

   Chris

2. 
   Sobs | Oct 16, 2004 08:53am | #29

   THE LOOK OF YOUR KITCHEN IS GREAT.

   HAVE READ THE BOOK BY CHENG.  IN HIS BOOK HE MENTIONS EXTEMELY EXPENSIVE ABRASIVE THAT ARE USED TO POLISH THE SLAB.  DID YOU USE DIMOND ABRASIVE PADS, OR DID YOU FIND ANOTHER SOLUTION.  WHAT SEALER DID YOU EVENTUALY DECIDE ON

1. 
   alexpesta | Oct 18, 2004 05:00pm | #30

   i used the diamond pads to grind/polish. they are expensive, but not offensive. now, i had the hardest time FINDING them; if anyone knows of a supplier in the Cleveland area, let me know.

   I ended up ordering from these guys:

   http://www.bargainblade.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=63

2. 
   Mongo | Oct 20, 2004 08:38am | #34

   Cheng uses melamine for his molds.

   Melamine has a very slight texture to it, but it's enough to throw off the surface of the cast slab.

   I use gloss formica to line my molds.

   When you pull the form off the slab, it's like looking in a mirror. No grinding. Glass-flat.

   The only surface prep that need to be done is if the surface is too glossy, the glos can be taken down with a mild abrasive to get a matte/honed look. No fancy methods, sandpaper on a ros will do.

3. 
   alexpesta | Oct 20, 2004 04:31pm | #35

   I use some of the prefinished bathroom board for my moulds; you know, that crappy white board that is held onto the wall with channels? They make a glass-smooth board that is available at Home Depot for about $9.

   This might be cheaper than the gloss laminate...just trying to save you some cash.

   Ever heard of an architect trying to save money before?

4. 
   Mongo | Oct 20, 2004 05:34pm | #36

   Good idea, thanks. I haven't seen those. Do you recall the sheet thickness or the panel sizes?

   I buy the formica sheets fom Home Depot.

   They have some really ugly patterns that don't sell, plus sheets that get cracked or dinged from mishandling.

   I get the damaged ugly ones for $10 a sheet. Can use them for several pours.

   The worst thing is standing in line with ugly looking formica. I've gotten some interesting looks from others in line, looks inferring that they're sympathetic to the poor woman who has to work in the kitchen that I'm buildng the formica countertops for.

5. 
   alexpesta | Oct 20, 2004 06:23pm | #37

   hilarious!

   the sheets are 4x8; i think they are only about 5/8" thick, but i put them in the mould on top of the 3/4" plywood that i use as the bed.

   i don't recall the manufacturer's name, but it is in the area of the store with all the other paneled crapola; look under where the panels are standing up. these lay horizontally, second or third shelf up...

   now, onto a touchy subject. what kind of CONCRETE vibrator do you prefer? i have the cordless makita (which is nice) but i have seen some cheap-o's that are more like a surface vibrator. it looks very similar to a palm sander.

6. 
   gdavis62 | Oct 21, 2004 12:55am | #38

   Ooh! Vibrators.

   Go on.

7. 
   Mongo | Oct 21, 2004 07:49am | #39

   First concrete countertop I did about ten years ago? My framing hammer was the vibrator. I simply beat the heck out of the form until the entrapped air surrendered.

   I soon graduated to a motor from an old washing machine. I mounted an eccentric weight on the axle. The motor shakes the table that the form is on. Works like a champ and takes 30 seconds to 2 minutes max, depending on the size/shape of the form.

   The nice thing is that it does the entire slab as a whole, so no parts get missed.

8. 
   pagoda | Oct 21, 2004 04:07pm | #40

   try to find someplace that sells laminate and board to the cabinet industry and ask them for any gloss “cover sheets”. they often put crappy old out of print sheets on top of skids to protect the good stuff. i buy stuff from baer supply and any time i pick up an order i look around or ask for cover sheets or stuff that they want to get rid of. now a question... can anyone share a simple list of products for a “admix” to use with quick crete 5000 or the precision grout? and what type of water reducer is best? i would like to avoid buying large amounts, but i would think the ingredients could be had for less money than the “kits” for sale.thanks
   ian in cleveland

2. 
   PaulBinCT | Oct 08, 2004 04:27pm | #11

   Nice job Alex...

   Some time ago I built a concrete countertop for the lobby of my co (a commercial photo lab).  Thought I'd snap some (admittedly lousy) quick pics for the discussion.  There are (see close up) camera parts and related objects embedded in it.  It has worn like... well, like concrete and it's amazing how many people come in to tell me they heard about it... (self back patting ;) )

   Edited 10/8/2004 9:28 am ET by PaulB

1. 
   user-214172 | Oct 08, 2004 05:37pm | #12

   I have not tried myself yet, but I have helped others, and installed a few.  There is a great book called simply, Concrete Countertops, I think the authors last name is Chen.  Anyway, it is a great tool withlots of info on how to do it and the amazing multitude of things you can do to personlaize the look!

1. 
   alexpesta | Oct 08, 2004 11:21pm | #14

   Concrete Countertops by Fu-Teng Cheng.

   this book rules and shows you what you can do with concrete..which is basically, anything. I have used this book to get inspired, some of his techniques are amazing, but you'll see how complex the mould process can get.

   the hardest part of the process for me was finding local suppliers that carried the dye.

   if anyone in cleveland knows of a place, let me know. i had to go to cincinnati to get it from the place i bought when i was in college.

2. 
   katmagnum | Oct 14, 2004 04:47am | #24

   Alex,  I don't know exactly where in Cleve you are ( I'm in Parma), but a new place just opened up on Pleasant Valley Rd in Independence. The name of the place escapes me now but they had a booth at the latest JLC Live in Columbus and they had all the needed materials for concrete tops.  Ill find the name in a bit and get back to you

3. 
   obrian7 | Oct 06, 2004 10:47pm | #7

   There are some example photos at The Stamp Store's website (http://www.thestampstore.com), and I believe they also sell edge molds, if you want to go that route. I would suggest you give them a call; they've always been helpful to us. They're based out of Oklahoma City, but I'm fairly certain they ship worldwide.

   My boss installed concrete countertops in his kitchen, and his wife seems very pleased with them (There's a photo of one section on our website, http://www.kzconstruction.com, under the "Decorative Concrete" section.) His is fairly simple (colored concrete with a beveled top edge), but they can get quite a bit more intricate.

   - Brian

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/9/2004 7:31 pm ET by obrian7

1. 
   kestrel | Oct 09, 2004 01:44am | #17

   Brian,

   Your link http://www.kzconstruction.com,  doesn't work because that last comma is in the hypertext link.  If you could edit it to get rid of the comma, it should work.

   kestrel

4. 
   oak | Oct 11, 2004 06:10pm | #19

   hey rob...

   mongo is one of the resident concrete countertop experts around here.  he use to have a word document outlining his experiences.  if you contacted him, im sure he would pass it along.

   fine homebuilding, september 1999, issue 125 has a cover story on poured in place concrete countertops.  the article shows how to form/build/finish the countertop with a trowel.

   http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/fh_toc_125.asp

   the book by Fu-Tung Cheng, and the method described by Mongo, is an inverted cast of the counter top where you essentially pour the counter upside down, and the bottom of the mold becomes the top of the counter

   View Image

   the 'news' section of fu-tung's website has links to many of his recent articles

   http://www.chengdesign.com/news.html

1. 
   robteed | Oct 14, 2004 06:13am | #25

   Yes, We have the book. My wife is a little nervous about "CONCRETE".

   I think it will set my work apart from the rest. We are building a 4000 sq. ft. house. Its kind of a spec home. We plan on living in it for a couple years then selling.

   In the meantime I can show clients my work.

2. 
   robteed | May 30, 2005 01:10am | #44

   This will link to my concrete countertop pics. (I think )
   http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=48012.64

1. 
   brownbagg | May 30, 2005 03:37am | #45

   I like the shower.

5. 
   poorsh | Oct 14, 2004 02:54am | #23

   Hi

   Staining and pitting from lemon juice on concrete? I think this would apply to marble as lemon juice reacts with the limestone base, not concrete.

   Cheers

   Mac

1. 
   Clay | Oct 14, 2004 09:33am | #26

   Mac;

   Guess what they make cement out of ... powdered limestone.  The concrete counters are much more prone to staining and other types of damage than granite.  That is one of the main drawbacks to the concrete countertops ... the high maintenance nature of the surfaces.  Marble is usually a poor option for kitchen countertops for the same reason ... though it is often used in bathrooms especially for lav tops and showy powder room sink tops.

1. 
   brownbagg | Oct 14, 2004 03:05pm | #27

   they make a self leveling grout for industial work. It is an epoxy grout with psi of 15,000 lbs. when dry its almost a black color. I thought about using it for a type of concrete counter.

1. 
   Clay | Oct 15, 2004 07:42am | #28

   they make a self leveling grout for industial work. It is an epoxy grout with psi of 15,000 lbs. when dry its almost a black color. I thought about using it for a type of concrete counter.

   That might be interesting ... there are also some really super dense plaster cements and casting cements available.  They are used by sculptors and other artists.  They provide roughly the density of hard granite.  The most commonly known brand is Hydrostone but there are numerous similar products available ... some even harder and denser than Hydrostone.  I think there might be some interesting possibilities with them too.  They tend to be hard enough to take a nice polish.

1. 
   InTooDeep | Oct 20, 2004 04:31am | #33

   I'm from OKC where The Stamp Store is located so concrete floors/counters are very popular here.  I've been wanting concrete counters since I purchased my home but am working my way to this project.  I've been scared to try it myself being a first time homeowner.  Do you think this is too difficult to do for a novice? The pictures you've shown are great . . . is it as complicated as it looks?  I've also have the concrete book you've all mentioned and it seemed like a lot.  I'm curious . . . when we take off the old countertops, can we use them as a guide to make the molds? Also, I have very solid counters built from early 60s.  Is it necessary to reinforce the cabinets themselves?

2. 
   obrian7 | Oct 25, 2004 04:49pm | #41

   InTooDeep -

   I may be mistaken, but I believe The Stamp Store's countertops are all pour-in-place; you don't create an inverted mold like Cheng advocates. This makes for a much simpler process, although you are more limited in what you can do.

   - Brian

3. 
   DonP1 | Oct 27, 2004 07:24am | #42

   Can someone tell me if one could attempt a pour in place over an existing tile counter that seems pretty stable? Or is it absolutely necessary to demo the tile? I don't mind the extra height if it's possible.

4. 
   Mongo | Oct 28, 2004 08:08am | #43

   If the base is stable, have at it.