Replies

1. 
   MisterSteve | Feb 23, 2005 03:40am | #1

   Check out the books by Cheng and Buddy Rhodes. Rhodes (or Rodes) also sells a kit.
   My opinion, easy to learn, hard to master.
   -Steve

   http://www.lukeworks.com/concrete.html

2. 
   footsox1 | Feb 26, 2005 07:49pm | #2

   Yes, the big guru in concrete countertops is Fu-Tung Cheng. His website is: http://www.concreteexchange.com

   He also has a book out or maybe two. (That we bought from Amazon) It looks like a pretty massive project if you are up for it. We decided that the look fo them was not exactly what we are looking for, and if we attempted this, it would take us about 2 years to make them oursleves. Thye also require quite a lot of sealing so that foods don't absorb into them and stain. (cooking oils, red wine, etc.) But, as you will see from his website, there are instructions, and kits to buy, etc. The book is pretty step-by-step also with lots of tips and photos, etc. Good luck. Oh, Buddy Rhodes is the other guru of councrete countertops. I'm sure he has a website, instructions, kits, supplies, also.

   Sue

3. 
   ponytl | Feb 26, 2005 09:16pm | #3

   a. it ain't hard...  and really not even hard work if you are use to work'n

   b.I've read the books and really didn't find alot of info anyone who has ever worked concrete wouldn't already know...

   c. people who do it try to make it sound hard and they think there are secrets that they are guard'n...  it's not and they aren't...

   like anything else if you take your time... read up on it... plan well... expect the worse and plan for that you'll be ok...

   a few tips... if you are doing a one off deal the pour it in place... make alot of drawings try to picture everything in your mind on how the counter will look how things will mount... what will hold what where ect...

   people will tell you a dry mix... and on the dry side is fine... but add'n more portland to let you have a little more moisture makes it fill the voids better and you have more fines to fill the small spaces... do not over work it your fix once it is placed... leave it alone until the "proper time to work it"  when you can't see your finger print it's time to start work'n it HARD with steel trowels you only get one shot to save yourself a ton of work and now is that time...

   they don't have to be perfect... but you do want nice edges and no real voids

   i can do countertops for less than $3 a sqft material cost and a good size kitchen in 2-3 days...   thats cast in place... if i'm do'n alot of the same... then cast'n em upside down ( face down) i can cut that way down once the mold is made...

   don't use sackrete... buy portland (i prefer white)  get the best white washed fine sand you can get... and pea gravel (nothing over 3/4) some people add a little lime to the mix i have and can't tell one way or the other...

   i prefer bent sheet metal for my forms vs wood... but i see alot of guys use'n  plastic trim boards (like the plastic baseboard you get from HD)

   just plan well,  you don't want to have a 4000lb rock in your kitchen... don't rush get your forms right and over brace everything... lots of temp bracing... some people like to leave the forms in place for days or weeks others remove em while the pour is still green (maybe 5-10 hours old) so they can work out any flaws then... you might practice with building a mold for stepping stones so you'll know what you're in for..

   pony

1. 
   Jazzy | Mar 03, 2005 05:20pm | #4

   Pony, I have to have to respond to your post to help clarify some things."a. it ain't hard... and really not even hard work if you are use to work'n " Your right it isn't hard, that is compared to say manual labor or construction, which a bit a both are needed, but also much more, to achieve proper results. However it is like the earlier post said "easy to do, hard to master". "people who do it try to make it sound hard and they think there are secrets that they are guard'n... it's not and they aren't..." I am sure some fabricators fall into that category, but all quality fabricators have trade secrets, all have extensive time and money invested in developing and researching different products and methods to ensure the best possible quality and consistantsy are the end results. I challenge someone to replicate Buddy's recipe, why do you think these guys have confidentiality disclosure agreements that their employees sign?
   Anyone with some knowledge and a bit of luck can make a concrete countertop. It takes time and skill however to consistently produce great results, which taking so carelessly to say its easy, and there are no trade secrets to me says that you either haven't had the time, research and skill invested to appreciate the craft or your a granite guy that feels threatened."i can do countertops for less than $3 a sqft material cost and a good size kitchen in 2-3 days" I'm not sure that the result of such a statement is something I would like to invest into my kitchen. Less then $3.00sqft, says to me that the simplistic approach used is going to be lacking on many levels. Can a countertop cast from a time consuming mold, with the proper precautions taken and resolved for reinforcement, flowability, crack resistance, proper curing, finishing,and sealing to scratch the surface (so to speak) really be done correctly on less than $3.00sqft? No way.If you want to see quality that is not produced on $3.00sqft, here is a quick link.http://www.concretenetwork.com/countercast/countercast_award.htmThanks for letting me clear that up-Mike

   Edited 3/3/2005 11:36 am ET by Jazzy

1. 
   ponytl | Mar 04, 2005 02:41am | #5

   i never said that experience wouldn't make it easier, and if you want to call "experience" a trade secret...  concrete is portland, sand, & stone yes you can add & subtract from that... but with a little research you can come up with a pretty good mix...  maybe i can do things a little cheaper because i have the equipment and purchase by the trucklaod...  take my dumptruck and select the exact sand i want and haul it myself... I think my molds are built better and are slicker than any I've ever seen since i usually use steel... slick smooth strong...steel... but then not everyone has the equipment to work with steel... but I've made very slick molds with hardware store items...  concrete is a great material to work with and dollar wise not much match it...

   it's construction work... just like you were pour'n a slab on a small scale... but it won't kill you... if you plan well don't rush, and be creative i stand by my $3sf material cost...

   most companies that try to hide what they do & how they do it... usually aren't hide'n much... there are no real "secrets" I've seen every concrete countertop that ever graced the pages of about any publication and have yet to see one that i couldn't dupicate....

   I stick by my original post... and if you are in the concrete counter top business and you tell anyone you have more than $5 a sf in concrete materials ($3 in my case) ur either buy'n your materials at the wrong place... or not be'n honest... 

1. 
   MisterSteve | Mar 04, 2005 04:57am | #6

   Carbon Fiber netting, epoxy coated rebar. glass frits, cobalt dyes, acrylic admixes, penatrating sealers, topcoats, wax. Plus some portland, some sand, some stone.Steel, MDX, melamine, 2in. foam, caulk a tad more than 3 bucks a sqaure ;)http://www.lukeworks.com

4. 
   Sup | Mar 11, 2005 11:49pm | #7

   I've made them and what the key is, as far as I'm concerned, is planning.  I made templates out of large sheets of cardboard to make sure I had good matches to finished side walls.  Leave some room for getting the tops in place.  The back splash will hide gaps at the back wall.

   I transferred the template to plywood sheets well supported in my garage.  Used 2X4's ripped to the thickness I wanted for the edges.  I put a little bevel on the top edge so that the screed board wasn't riding on the full edge.  I used wd40 for a release agent but would probably use a melamine board and a thin wash of KY or vaseline if I was to do it again.

   I blocked out my openings, sink and cooktop, with builtup plywood and used rebar and mesh for reinforcing.  I had some good overhangs on the island.

   I used a high strength sack concrete for the pour.  I borrowed my wifes back vibrator and ran it under the plywood to settle the concrete.  I liked the look of some gaps in the edge so I wasn't working the edges that much.  For the top I got a good steel trowel out and worked it as best I could.

   We stained our countertops with a concrete stain.  It is best if you set up your forms as they will be in the kitchen so that the stain patterns will be similar where they mate up.   It is also good to have a place where you can neutralize and wash the tops down well.  I would probably look at concrete colorizers next time.

   I used an expoxy sealer for my tops and edges.  I found that the water based sealers worked best where we are.  I live in Louisiana and the humidity level is so high that the other epoxy would get a milky cast to it.  I cast a bunch of squares when I was doing the top so I could experiment with stain and finishes.

   These things are heavy so you need to reinforce your cabinets.  Extra plywood on the interiors, brace up the corners, etc.  I even used steel pipe in the corners of my island to give me extra support.

   There was a great article in This Old House Magazine years ago about making concrete countertops.  I can probably dig it up.  It was before the one they did on the house out in the southwest.  It had some great tips on joining the pieces together.

   You can either use Liquid nails or some other construction adhesive to glue them in place or tapcons to screw them to the cabinets. 

   Last bit of advice if you pour them outside and then set them in place.  Make friends with some young body builders.  Offer them dinner in exchange for setting the tops in place.  These things weigh a ton.  Don't make them in pieces that you can't handle.

   Good luck.  Have fun!

      

1. 
   KyleH | Mar 15, 2005 03:31pm | #8

   Great info!  Keep it comin' as I'm thinking about tackling this job myself in the near future.  We're buying a 60's Colonial that has the standard white laminate tops...those gotta' go!

1. 
   aimless | Mar 16, 2005 05:52am | #9

   Do a search on Breaktime as well. Mongo posted detailed instructions for how he does them.