I just had 6.5 m3 concrete poured (about 5 inches thick) on my workshop floor. The guys worked it over all day and did a great job.
For the next 2 weeks between houses, I have a bunch of furniture and cabinets to make so I’ll be working on the floor in about 2 days time. I really want to paint it quickly for ease of cleaning and to help reflect light to brighten the place up.
How long should I let the concrete dry before I paint it?
Right now in Southern Japan its in the 80’s everyday, and the rainy season here is just finishing. The new floor was poured over a 3-4 inch thick makeshift concrete pad that’s been there for 15 years.
Any advice would help. Thanks in advance.
Scott
Replies
Although rain and groundwater have an effect, the curing rate of concrete is based on the chemical reaction of the cement, agregate and drying of the original water in the mix.
50% of the water leaves the concrete in the first 24 hrs.
75% of the water is gone in 28 days and the concrete is said to be near full strength.
The remaining water takes years to vacate, and concrete is said to be at full strength in 110 yrs.
So, I would wait at least a month before considering painting. Personally, I would wait 6 mths to a year.
"Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
I'd check with a commercial paint supplier to see what the manufacturers recommend. They probably have some stipulation about new concrete curing time in their warranty. They may also want the concrete to be acid etched before applying the paint.
You might also consider laying a commercial grade linoleum floor, 12x12 tiles. It's usually preferred over painted floors, for most work spaces.
I've done it both ways and I'd probably use linoleum for a wood shop space, simply to avoid working with epoxy paint again. The fumes from that stuff are very nasty, requiring a full suit and an outside air respirator, to safely paint a large surface like a shop floor.
You are probably going to have to wait at least a month. More if you can. Most flooring manufacturers stipulate a vapor emission threshold, above which, they will not warrant the product. Depending on the product going down, that threshold is generally somewhere between 2.5 - 5 lbs/1000sf/24hr of vapor emission. Percentage of moisture in the slab really doesn't tell you anything with regard to floor covering placement. You need to have a calcium chloride test done to really see where you are at. Are there any materials testing companies near by you that you know of? They can run the test for you.
Shawn
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Checker Contracting - SE Michigan
It sounds like the best idea is to wait at least a month, then check with the paint manufacturer after that.
Linoleum is a good idea, but I'd have it ripped to shreds in weeks. The floor space is quite large and I keep a lot of wood, and house building materials, etc. in there.
SS
My feeling is that if you would be ripping linoleum to shreds, any regular paint you use wouldn't last long either. While epoxy is pretty nasty as far as fumes, epoxy is used in garages and car showrooms, so it should be durable. It makes a surface that is easy to keep clean too. It is also easier to prepare a new floor for epoxy--probably need to acid etch only, rather than wash and degrease (like you'd have to do with an old floor). Maybe not even need to etch new concrete.
The epoxy coat sounds good. I'm going to go to the local paint store tomorrow and try translate that. I'm sure they have it here too. Looks like they have "breathable" epoxy coatings too, where it lets the moisture from below out, but protects the floor it at the same time.
SS
Make sure you get a good repirator or activated carbon-filled canisters on a mask and replace it when you begin to smell the fumes. I painted epoxy on a garage floor without a mask and will never do that again--almost overpowering despite overhead door being up and a fan blowing from an opened back door from the house through the garage. As you know, only mix what you can use in the open time (which I found to be much less than the time stated on the can). And you still probaly need to wait a month to do the epoxy.
I think epoxy has changed since I used it--just watched This Old House where they rolled it and it came out fine--when I used it, a roller would not work--was like rolling honey--did not wet the surface, did not want to spread or stick to the surface. I ended up scrubbing it in with a brush, but thought a sqeegee might also work. Maybe epoxy these days is thinner and has more surfactants to get it to "wet" the surface and flow out. Like the one poster said, it is not a fun job, so be prepared!
Linoleum is a good idea, but I'd have it ripped to shreds in weeks.
I can't imagine how you'd damage commercial grade linoleum, not the 12X12 squares. It's a full 1/8" thick stuff, very strong. It's often used in machine shops and factories where fork lifts run over it daily, dropping and sliding oak skids.
In the rare event where one tile gets damaged, it's easy to replace it using a heat gun or propane torch to warm the tile and the adhesive before prying it up.
Retail cost for Armstrong commercial grade vinyl tiles is between $.60-$.70/sqft.
Edited 6/30/2008 12:48 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
commercial grade linoleum, not the 12X12 squares
That is VCT, vinyl composition tile.
Commercial linoleum tile is available, but not reccomended for shop type floors. I was under imoressed with its' performance in one of our power plant offices. It might be ok in a normal office area, but in a coal fire generating facility, it lasted less than 3 years. Discolored and lost its "permenant gloss" from the constant tracking of coal dust and fly ash over it. I wouldn't reccomend it for a shop floor that is going to be exposed to abrasive materials tracked, dragged and stacked on it.
Even VCT would reguire some regular care for it to remain nice looking.
http://www.armstrong.com/commflooringna/
Check out the information under "Performance" to find the best product for a particular application.
Yep, that is the stuff we used.
Like I said it may be ok for some commercial use. We got all the sales hype and promises when we had it put in that power plant office area. Three years later the factor rep was saying the product wasn't designed for such a hostile environment.
We ended up taking it all out and having a porcelin ceramic tile installed. Dark gray with black grout. That tile has been there for 6 years now and looks as good as the day it was finished. It cost a ton more than any other type flooring we looked at, but for product cost vs. longivity, you can't beat it.
You used one of several commercial Armstrong products in an area where unusual chemical compounds would come in contact with the floor.
How does that compare with a wood working shop?
BTW, I can buy 12X12 porcelain tile by American Olean, one of the major US manufacturers, from my supplier for less than $2/sqft.
Your whole story sounds like a bunch of poorly researched decisions which you're trying to lay off on someone else.
Don't shoot me man. I'm just the piano player.
Our project planner and design specialist are the big bucks people that make those decision. I got assign as a temporary supervisor on the last renovation 6 years ago. When the plant manager ask my opinion, I suggested ceramic tile. It was the right choice and would have been 20 years ago, but the people planning these things are, most of the time, the least knowageable and experienced. They just call some supplier sales rep. and buy thier line of BS.
That is a good price on the porcelin tile. I can't recall what that job cost us. I do remember it being around 5,500 sq. ft. The plant had fund that change because the original scope didn't call for any new flooring. The yellowing and abrasion patterns became real noticeable when we started reconfigureing the office spaces with new furniture and walls. That is when the original supplier, sales rep. and eventually factory rep. got called. A lot of finger point went on, but bottom line was they would do a thing for us.
I wish I had found a company like this when I was a contractor. They never hold any contractors feet to the fire for big time screw ups. They just have thier own people (me) fix it and pay the contractor in full for some pretty sorry work or product.
Don't shoot me man. I'm just the piano player.
Armstrong doesn't need me to defend their products either. But you chose to insert a story here about their product line, based on an axe you have to grind with one of their sales people, over a condition that doesn't occur in a wood working shop.
You can add me to the list of people who wouldn't put down lino in a shop. Hot solder, wood with nails it, old jagged chimneys, heavy rusty woodstoves, cans of solvent based paint all end up on the floor when I work. I hope you don't get as huffy with me as you did with DaveRicheson.
So you think your hypothetical issues are convincing reasons not to use commercial grade linoleum tiles on a shop floor? Tell that to the many thousands of professional shop owners who are very pleased with the service they've been getting from that surface for decades.
You can add almost all retail stores to that list. Many other commercial spaces as well.
There are literally billions of square feet of commercial linoleum tiles in use on floors that we all walk on every time we go out to shop. An awful lot of people must be happy with it's performance.
Having worked on the design of several hospitals and many commercial kitchens and restaurants, I'm pretty sure I've speced more linoleum, and read more product data than most people. I also have a bit of experience in work shops and other commercial and institutional spaces that had linoleum floors, so I'm not quite sure how you can characterize my issues with it as hypothetical. True, I don't rely on manufacturer's websites for product information, so yeah, I guess you've got me there.
True, I don't rely on manufacturer's websites for product information, so yeah, I guess you've got me there.
No, you've overcome all my fact based logic with one unfounded snide remark.
Enjoy the epoxy fumes while you're painting your floors. Maybe the liver transplant list will be shorter by the time you need a new one.
Epoxy? Where did you get that? I'm sorry you seem to take anyone not wanting to use linoleum as a personal afront, rather than a preference based on their experience.
You sure came out swinging in this thread.
Epoxy? Where did you get that?
So you jumped in here half way, just to argue, without reading the O.P.'s question.
Typical message board chest thumper.
Look is there any chance you could remain within spitting distance of civil in our discussion?
My original reply to the OP was that he should not paint but rather seal the concrete. He replied it was a good idea and that he would probably do so.
I'm don't think linoleum offers much of an advantage over the perfectly good slab for the following reasons:
The whole point of the OP was that the slab isn't cured and he wants to get on it soon. Linoleum is susceptible to moisture from below and could not be applied, probably for a good month.
Linoleum suffers permanent dents from impacts or concentrated loads. Hence the almost wholesale destruction of most lino floors in the 60s when stiletto heels came in.
As a linseed oil based product, linoleum discolours easily from solvent based spills, especially those with a high PH difference.
That is what I based what I can't help but consider is a reasonable opinion that I wouldn't want it in my shop. I don't see how this makes me stupid or a d#ck, and I sure don't wish liver failure on you.
I have probably installed 100k sf or more of VCT, linoleum, rubber, and vinyl tiles over the years. From just about every manufacture out there. Commercial, industrial and residential.
There is a big difference in the three environments, but the one thing they all have in common is product care must be maintained for the life of the flooring. How diligently is that going to happen in a wood working shop?
Ever deal with a factory rep. on product failure, even when their sales rep and literature says the product will work ?
Armstrong is a good product, but they are no better than any other manufacture when it comes to standing behind their warranty. All of them run the same litany of reasons not to pay off; improper prep., improper installation, improper maintenance, and then there is product abuse or wrong use.
I was a certified Armstrong installer. Went to their classes for the products I installed. It made no difference. The reps job is to reduce, limit, or eliminate the liability.
I've got no ax to grind with Armstrong, Mannington, or any other manufacturer. I have had very few problems with any of them over the many years I installed tile floors. Those rare times there was an issue I got more support from my local vendors than I did from the manufacturer.
Call me a jaded old timer, but I been around to long to buy the hype and bs from any of them anymore.
Glad to read a more complete explanation of your reasoning.
I don't disagree that linoleum tile has limitations based on environment. My point has been/is that it's a viable, cost effective alternative to epoxy paint for a woodworking shop.
So what if one or two tiles get damaged or stained, once in a while? It's a ten minute job to replace a commercial tile, less than one dollar out of pocket. I wouldn't even think about warranty issues. My floor, my decision how to maintain it.
If the same painted area gets damaged, what's the remedy? Acid etch and wash the surface, then go buy a fresh quart of expensive paint and activator, mix it and repaint the area. Finally you have to leave the shop until the chemical fumes have stopped cooking off the surface. That's half a day's work and another half day of lost time, plus a fairly heavy hit to the wallet.
I'm not a big fan of linoleum tiles or paint for a woodshop. If I was setting up shop on a concrete floor in a building I owned, I'd start by building a wood floor on top of it.
Edited 7/3/2008 8:02 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Normal a month or more.
I would be looking at watercure polyurethene floor paint and doing it soon.
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I would put a coat of Cure and Seal concrete sealant on it now, which will keep it protected. Then in a month apply a second coat of compatible regular concrete sealant.
Sealed concrete is beautiful. Painted concrete, not so much so.
Good idea. I'm going to stay off of the floor for as long as I can, then do a sealer right away.
SS
Think i'd see about a water-borne epoxy paint like red devils severe enviroment paint. e-mail red devil and they will send back the msd sheet on it, also where you can get it. a superior finish, big time tough and can take the abuse. Jim