Replies

1. 
   GCourter | Apr 24, 2003 06:42pm | #1

   Replacing the insulated glass unit (and if you cannot get the glass the window) is the only way to eliminate the problem.  Otherwise you will always have just two pcs of glass.

1. 
   alecs | Apr 24, 2003 09:16pm | #3

   If there's water in between the panes, then the insulating value of the window is severely diminished.  However, if the frames are still in good shape, infiltration is probably not that bad.  Infiltration can be just as big (or bigger) of a heat loss problem as the U-value of the glass.  So if you can live with the condensation, I would see what your heating bills are like before replacing the glass.  It's unlikely to be cost effective to replace them (from an energy standpoint) if they are not leaking air.  I would guess that the payback is probably >10 yrs, but that depends on where you are and if your climate is heating or cooling dominated.

2. 
   joedigs | Apr 24, 2003 08:47pm | #2

   You have a "seal failure"

   True, replacement only fix...I'm aware of

3. 
   scaly | Apr 24, 2003 09:42pm | #4

   We had the same problem on several of our windows. There's people in the phone book that replace them for you. They come out and measure then come back in a week and put the new panes in for you. I think we paid $150 for 4 windows.

   First Iraq, then France, then Hollywood!

1. 
   edwardh1 | Apr 25, 2003 12:14am | #5

   when folks do the great energy calc on double pane windows they forget to figure in replacing them every so often.

   i think the low pressure of hurricanes may blow them out too.

   Someone needs to make some that last.

   Mine are Caradco and many many fail after 10 -15 years.

   oddly, big patio doors have not.

   Edited 4/24/2003 9:08:57 PM ET by wain

1. 
   ClevelandEd | Apr 25, 2003 02:00am | #8

   Someone neds to make some that last.

   Maybe Pella was right after all.  One of their better lines (and maybe all of their better lines) use unsealed windows.  Years ago I thought that they were selling outdated technology, but when I hear about regular periodic replacement of almost all of a house's windows after 20 years I now don't see the Pella system as outdated.

   Anyone have any feelings on Pella?

    

1. 
   junkhound | Apr 25, 2003 06:13am | #11

   amen

1. 
   Nails | Apr 25, 2003 04:07pm | #13

   All....Has anyone removed ,resealed and replaced double pane. The replace part of the discussion seems like you are replacing glass but the glass doesn't wear out. We do most everything else in remodeling why not recycle whats allready there?

2. 
   edwardh1 | Apr 26, 2003 12:41am | #14

   I agree the old style storms were better.

   No one admits to the fogging and water in the window causing etching

   whay does water in a window etch/discolor the glass?????

3. 
   GCourter | Apr 28, 2003 04:53pm | #19

   It is not the water that causes the etching, it is a reaction between the water, the air and the sealing material.  If the spacer between the glass panes is metal the seatlant material is probably thyacol (not sure of the spelling).

4. 
   edwardh1 | Apr 28, 2003 05:40pm | #20

   thanks

   sounds like time for the industry to find a new sealant.

   of course they are the same people that sell you the window (again) each 15 years.

   oh well, maybe the japanese will fix it for us.

5. 
   junkhound | Apr 26, 2003 05:06am | #17

   Nails:  I've removed, unsealed, cleaned, and successfully resealed tempered doors (oldest fix is now on 15th year), which seem to etch less, likely due to the surface tension strength.  I have dissassembled a number of normal windows and always found the etching too bad to deal with. BTW, success rate in splitting apart tempered door panes is 100%, success rate with normal DS glass is only about 60% without breakage - but so what, can't be 'cleaned' anyway. Technique was heat gun and special knife.

   Wain: "why"  you wouldn't believe the number of PHD chemists and biologists I've asked that question, most have never even heard of or considered the phenomenon!  Best to date I've heard is that it is bacterial/enzyme related, but NOOBDY has ever published a paper I know of with species, etc. listed. Would love to hear from anyone with specific information backed by test, not just guesses or generalities.

   IMHO, the financially burden & ripoff to/of Americans foisted by 'insulated' glass industry is second only to (or maybe even before) that of GFCI being mandatory per code. Obviously only talking specific building code interests  -- if as a conservative you count stuff like Kyoto, campaign reform, not drilling in the artic, etc. ; or, as a liberal,  tax cuts,  WMD preemptive wars, etc., then whole other story and points for contention over in the TAV. . ..<G???>

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 29, 2003 02:46am | #23

   "Anyone have any feelings on Pella?"

   Let's see - it's emotions you're after here, right?

   Some of my worst window experiences have been with Pella. worst millwork, worst fit and operation, worst design, next to worst service.

   That leaves me feeling , uhm - used?.

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   ClevelandEd | Apr 29, 2003 05:00am | #24

   I get the feeling that your experiences with Pella  have left you feeling unambivalent about Pella.

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 25, 2003 01:46am | #7

   LOL!!!

   "There's people in the phone book that replace them for you. They come out and measure..."

   Just how tall are these people you have lurtking in your phone book?

   What do you feed them?

   Do they really measure up?

   ;).

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   scaly | Apr 28, 2003 08:49pm | #22

   Bahahaha!!!

   First Iraq, then France, then Hollywood!

4. 
   BillHartmann | Apr 25, 2003 12:55am | #6

   Some double pane windows have warantees of 20 years or longer.

   If you dont' know the brand of the windows check with the glass manufacture. There will be a brand and date etched on the window. Is faint so you need to look careful and at different angles. It will be near one of the corners.

1. 
   junkhound | Apr 25, 2003 06:13am | #10

   "warantees of 20 years or longer" -- WHOOPDEEDO! BFD

   Nearly every south facing window I have (inst 1973) started to 'fog' , actually etched internally- see previous threads on replacement philosophies, techniques, etc -- by 1995.

   IMHO, next own built home (IF!! I can convince building dpt code weenies who don't know squat) will have old fashioned strorm windows, single glazed, but of course that Violates local energy codes.

1. 
   Qtrmeg | Apr 25, 2003 04:04pm | #12

   I had single glazed windows, with factory storms, on my first house. There were far better than the double glazed windows I have now. Larger dead air space, and two layers of infiltration protection.

   I had no problem getting them by the state energy code.

1. 
   junkhound | Apr 26, 2003 04:47am | #16

   Ah,  but NH is not the regulatory hell WA is!

2. 
   aek | Aug 01, 2003 06:16am | #27

   I want to keep the old single pane windows in my house and replace the fogged double paned windows with single pane windows. Any suggestions re: brands or storms? Also I am wondering what to do about the air space required for the window weights in the old windows. Is there any way to insulate them? Or should I get rid of the weights and install some other system to make the windows operate. Also I am interested in what a good storm window is? I have some old storms in wood frames should I use these or buy new ones.

2. 
   stefs3 | Apr 26, 2003 03:33am | #15

   What a delicious treat to hear such as that here!

   I am owner/buildering a house in which I actually built the windows. I get c### from every tradesman I talk to when I tell them they are single pane windows with storm windows.

   1. Single panes are R-1

   2. Double panes are R-2, give or take a fraction.

   3. Double pane windows only last 10 years, no matter what anyone says.

   4. I can pay for heat cheaper than I can pay for the manufacture of double pane windows.

   Hallelujah. I'm not a dumbs### after all.

   Stef

5. 
   jocobe | Apr 25, 2003 04:00am | #9

   Who made your windows?  What type are they...Double-Hung, Casement, Awning? Most large manufacturers have a 20 year seal failure warranty.  Where are you located?

   jocobe

   
   

   ---

   Edited 4/24/2003 9:06:26 PM ET by JOCOBE

1. 
   sparksalot | Apr 28, 2003 06:28pm | #21

   Don't know the manufacturer. The windows were installed by the previous owners and after examining the windows, I can't find a manufacturer's label anywhere. Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know the characteristics of the window types you mentioned.

6. 
   NickGianpaulo | Apr 26, 2003 03:21pm | #18

   Insulated glass windows last as long as the caulking. When the caulking degrades, moisture enters. Insulated glass windows are maintenance free, because it's not worth it to repair them. When the caulking starts failing, get a dumpster and go to town.

   If you read the energy codes, single glazed windows with a storm have the same default value as insulated glass windows. Unfortunately, the energy code doesn't allow for the energy it takes too remove and dispose of the old, failed, windows, and the money it costs to replace them. If you read the energy codes, they allow for single glazed sash with a storm, even in Massachusetts.

   Putting a good storm on a window can make a big difference in the life of the sash and the air infiltration into the house. Look at the Harvey or Allied Window web sites.

   Sash Guy

7. 
   donlauer | Apr 29, 2003 05:24am | #25

   Insulated glass windows are set on an aluminum frame and sealed with a mastic.Inside that aluminum square frame are thousands of tiny dessicant beads which absorb any moisture trapped between the two panes of glass after assembly.If the seal fails those dessicant beads become saturated with all the worlds moisture and begin out gassing and etch the glass. Don Lauer

1. 
   sparksalot | Apr 29, 2003 04:11pm | #26

   Great information, thanks. Do you also recommend we have someone come out and just replace the panes, or is total replacement the best approach?