connecting dishwasher to corian
unTreatedwood
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
The guy who replaced motors in our KitchenAid dishwasher after 1 year (!!!) told us the initial installers did not install properly. He said I needed to put mollie screws into the Corian above the unit. There is no wood spacer above the dishwasher, so he is right, I have to go into the Corian. I have never drilled into Corian, so the question is: 1) Do I treat it like, a)wood, b)granite, or c)something else?
2) Do I screw directly into the corian or do I have to use sleeves/mollie screws? Can anyone give me some advice out there? Thanks.
Big bob
Replies
What's the nosing like? Is the field of the counter 3/4" and the nosing 1.5"? There's a clip that attaches the dw to the counter above and the cabinets to the side. The wood blocking usually goes right behind the nosing and is the attachment point for that clip. What do you have there--nothing, or solid 1.5" of corian? i.e., how far back does the nosing go underneath? If it is just vacant, can you silicone a rip of wood there and attach it to the cabinets on either side for more strength? Then you have wood for attaching the dw. I've not ever seen my cabinet guys screw into the solid surface material.
Then you have wood for attaching the dw. I've not ever seen my cabinet guys screw into the solid surface material.
Exactly. That's my problem. There is no room to do what you are talking about. The clips go right up to the 1.5" corian. (The set back from face is around an inch or so. Depends upon where the DW was put back into the slot.) So the only option I have is to drill directly into the corian with something. Vertical distance from clips to corian, BTW, is less than 3/16". No doubt that is why the guys got it screwed up in the first place!!
Big Bob
I haven't done Corian in the last 5 years, so I am a little rusty. That stuff killed my back!
Any way, there are a few options. 1) is to silicone a wood strip to the bottom of the top behind the bullnose. If the build up edge is only 1/2" verticly, don't let the wood edge touch the front buildup, it coul break later.(I doubt it, but some installers/manufacturers are real hacks) 2)You could add an additional piece of corian under the top and use brass inserts that are designed for undermounting sink tops. They require a 3/16" brad point bit for them. Try not to drill into the existing top, to much heat from a DW. Attach the additional strip with a pack of fusing adhesive from Corian, or you "can" use a Crazy Glue that is designed for acrylic. Crazy glue can also be used between corian/wood or corian/corian. About eight years ago, Corian allowed crazy glue to be used for making the front buid up that has a wood strip between 2 layers of 1/2" Corian. I never had a failure. I personally vote for the additional strip of corian and the crazy glue(cheap/easy) and the threaded brass inserts. If you are careful, you can install the inserts before the strip in glued in. Just go to a local solid surface fabricator and get a few inserts. DON'T insert into the existing top and Don't have the screw bottom out on the bottom(or top)of the hole. It can cause the top to crack. Cut the srews shorter so as to prevent that from happening, especially if it is done to the 1/2" top without an additional piece added underneath. Does this help?
1)There is no bullnose.
2) corian is approx 1.5", not 1/2.
3) Does corian cut like wood? I know I can use a carbide bit with a router, for example, but how does it cut? I am asking becuase I don't know if I can get a strip the right dimensions. I may have to cut to size.
Thanks.
Big Bob
Corian cuts like HARD wood only if you used carbide. Sand it just like wood
It would be surprising if it were 1.5 inches thick. That is why you keep on getting people asking you that question.
This is a laid up material that is thermoset in liquid sheets then milled to size. Plastic pieces (colorings), resin, and gypsum are all mized in as fillers in exacting proportions to make it up. The resin/catalyst is the bonding agent that makes it thermoset. Then the sheet of set-up goop is milled, sandblasted, etc to finished flat form. General thickness is 1/2 inch, thicker putups are generally glued together from thin sheets with the crazy glue. (really it is done with GOOD superglue professionally) The good stuff (crynoacrylate) needs to be kept in a refrigerator to maintain its bonding strength. If your crosssection of formed material is too thick then bad things happen in a catalyst resin setup. The heat generated in the exothermic reaction tends to go out of control as the heat makes the resin set faster (in a big loop). Crazing and cavities form due to the uneven cureing and a substandard material is formed.
Professionally you'd have to cool the reaction down to cure a thicker crossection.
As for milling, use carbide tools. The gypsum filler will eat the tools up eventually but don't sweat it for the little work you will do here. It machines pretty nicely and sanding is much the same.
Good luckJack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Great insight! Thanks. Yes it is 1.5". I doublechecked this AM
I am sorry that I missed this discussion. I f you want to screw into Corian use Helicoils (available at auto parts stores. They will hold far better than brass inserts. If you want the book "How to work with Corian in the home workshop" by DuPont, just call me at 1-800-724-4008. I seriously doubt that the entire countertop is 1.5" thick that would make it over 40 pounds per foot and very difficlult to install. 3/4" will stop a 357 magnum 1.5" is just overkill, and would triple the cost. This will be important if you decide to drill into it. If you need to repair it when you are done that information is in the package as well.
Check http://stonewood/safeshopper.com
I hope this helps
Ken
I just thought I would update the conclusion to this project. I ended up ordering some corian from you. I sized and measured to fit opening for dishwaser and used some 5 min. expoxy to glue to underside of countertop. It was more than likely not corian, so I had to get something on there to screw into. I ended up using insert fittings (3/8 x 10-32) to receive the screws to attach the dishwasher to the countertop. It ended up fine and the wife is happy, (all that counts!!) . Thanks to those of you who gave me advice. I learned alot about the different materials in this little project.
Big Bob
Edited 6/22/2003 8:29:04 PM ET by big bob
Is there any way to lower your dishwasher? Mine had adjustable feet and I was able to gain about 3/4", just enought to follow the previous advice about gluing a strip of plywood to the underside. Fortunatly Corian is a lot easier and more forgiving to work with than granite. I would contact your Corian fabricator and see if they can give you advice on making the attachment.
The answer is "yes", I can lower the DW. I would prefer not to have to for several reasons, access being one of the biggies. But that had occurred to me, and will probably be plan B, if needed. thanks.
big bob
the proper way....the fabricators should have done this...is to rout out a space to set in a strip of wood to screw into...like someone else said, you can't screw into the corian. You'll have to figure a way to do something similar....maybe someone already gave you a strategy, I read the thread pretty quickly.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing
Bob,
I know your brakets are at the top and are designed to attach to the bottom of the counter top but is there a way you could attach the dishwasher to the side of the adjoining cabinets on the upper corners of each side instead?
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I have to check this. I have been gone most of the day, but that is a good idea. I see where there are inserts located for the previous dishwasher, but not for the current one. I'm sure that the installers never bothered to tell us or do anything about it. (The brackets on the current one do not line up with the old inserts, as you might expect!)
I will have to look carefully for the the side option. I'll let you know. Thanks.
Big Bob
Edited 5/22/2003 10:32:01 PM ET by big bob
you should be able to fasten the dishwasher from the sides into the cabinets dont take it for granted that the repair guy even new what he was talking about .i would avoid doing anything to the corian if you can help it lots of potential for a "whoops now we have a corian repair to do" does the dishwasher tip when you open it ? or was it shaking why did he think it needed to be fastend better sometimes these repair guys espesially ones that are doing warrenty work for sears or someplace like that talk to much
why not drill a 1/2 inch hole with a brad point(slowly) and hill the hole with a piece of dowel glued with five minute epoxy, then predrill the dowel for 1/2 #8 wood screw
This is an excellent alternative to the brass insert option. Actually, the previous owner had brass inserts up there for the previous dishwasher. So it's clear that that option can work. I just have to make sure to do it carefully!!
Big Bob
dont take it for granted that the repair guy even new what he was talking about
I don't and he didn't!
does the dishwasher tip when you open it ?
Yes, unfortunately!
sometimes these repair guys espesially ones that are doing warrenty work for sears or someplace like that talk to much
No argument from me on that one!!
I will have to check connect potential on the sides. I have my doubts, but will let you know when I check.
Big Bob
One more option - maybe.......
Some dishwashers have adjustable brackets that can be located anywhere on the top frame, including to the side as was previously posted. Maybe yours does??? Since you do have inserts in the corian top, you might consider modifying the location of the DW brackets, even if they are currently fixed in place. Depending on the attachment you could pop rivit sheet metal extensions to the left or right on the fixed bracket or remove (CUT) the brackets and reattach elsewhere. Beats cracking an expensive countertop.
I checked that out. The brackets are stationary, unfortunately. And I have no room on the side for anything.
If the DW tipping is the primary concern, I wonder if something could be done at the DW's feet similar to the holddown brackets on some stoves. The metal bracket screws to the floor and the leg fits in a slot so the foot is under the bracket.
Maybe you could keep it from moving at all with such brackets by screwing a bracket down around a front foot after the DW is installed.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
why is everyone so scared of drilling thru plastic?
all it is folks.......cultured marble too.....just plastic.
sure it's hard plastic...just drill with the right size bit and use the right size screw.
or.......drill.....or route.....it out and glue in some wood to screw to.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Amen to that. Corian is just acrylic plastic with some colors added. It drills just fine with a standard steel twist drill, and taps quite nicely. If you've really got 1.5" of thickness, just drill it and run a sheet-metal screw into it. If you think the dishwasher is going to go in and out a lot, tap the hole and use a machine screw. If you only have 1/2" of thickness, tap it with snub-nose tap; you'll be fine.
I've never worked with Corian, and there is no room for error on this. That's why I asked! Rather than screwing in an insert, I think I will put some wood in and screw to that. sounds like the easiest to accomplish. Thanks.
Big bob
The issue isn't drilling into plastic....it's drilling into plastic above a dishwasher...which is where most problems with solid surface occur. As someone noted below, you HAVE to allow room for expansion with temperature changes (this is a basic part of certification courses), because the stuff does move, and who knows whats going to happen if it's trying to move,and there are screws restraining it....and the cycle occurs over and over again. You're not even allowed to place it directly on cabinets in mostcases...it has to be on the plywood buildup strips, which have to be attached with silicone, for the manufacturers warranty to be in effect. all these 'have to's' and 'musts' have to be adhered to...if there is a problem, like a cracked countertop(and there is the potential for that here), everyone is going to looking to pin the repair costs on someone else...any installation technique that isn't approved is going to put it all on the person who did it.
there are other situations where using screws is permitted. I would be very surprised if any manufacturer allows it near a DW. None of the manufacturers I've been with did.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.SWAY too conservative to be merely right wing
I work for a certified corian farication shop. Do not just drill into the corian to secure your dishwasher. Corian must be able to move. That is why the correct installtion technique is to silicone ( using dupont silicone, or the warranty is void) a plywood build down as a substrate to the corian ctop. Then the whole assembly is fastened to the cabinets with screws into this plywood builddown. Also, are you sure the top is corian or is it some other solid surface material. Corian is sort of like kleenex for tissues. Some of these other materials are very brittle. The best solution is to get some plywood in here and secure it silcone. Maybe you can bridge the two base cabinets and actually screw into them. That way the dishwasher is secured to the casework and not the ctop. Due to you lack of space, it sounds like a combination of dropping the dishwasher and routing some of the front edge may get you what you need in terms of space. Remember, this stuff is not load bearing, that is what your substrate and build down is for. If your top cracks and you have drilled into it, most likely your warranty will not be backed up.
Having never worked with Corian, I really dont know if it is corian!! I am assuming that because this is a house in a relatively high end NJ town, (big deal!!) (it was here when we bought the house) it would be corian. I can confirm that the top is 1.5" I measured again this AM after reading all the posts. But I don't know how to confirm if it is corian!!
The DW is right next to the L that you find in most kitchen cabinets, so it is very hard to access. (It will even be a challenge to drill in fittings above the brackets!!)
The question of whether it is corian or not should not be of any concern. All solid surface material is made with acrylic, polyester, and/or a combination of both. The other materials are inert, such as aluminun trihydrate. They basically work the same. Some use a mechanical bond and/or a fusion bond. I and other shops I know of have mixed differnt brands together and never had a problem. As Jeff Buck stated, the manufacuters frown on screws and will not warranty improper installation. That is why the additional strip underneath is added. You can screw into that and not hurt the top. I doubt that the whole top is 1 1/2". It is probably the edge build up that extends to the face or past the face of the cabinets. Pull out the DW and you will probably see.