I was wondering if anyone could recommend a live Internet monitoring system that would allow me to view my construction projects? I found a company called HomeontheCam.com while attending the International Builders Show last year. Is anyone doing anything similar to this? These guys are offering the ability to monitor record and view video. Please let me know.
Thanks,
Chuck
Edited 4/30/2002 5:54:03 PM ET by chuck
Replies
How do you plan on keeping the camera from walking off?
More than just the camera. I can see making a camera on a tripod/base more difficult than its worth to steal but its just as easy to through a tarp over it as well.
Moreso what I am getting at is this new construction or existing construction? The infamous 'X10' are cheap enough even if they do walk off but where are you gonna hook this miracle up? Most ISP (Internet Service Providers) have a set time for disconect, usually around 8 hours and that would be 8 hours at a time on the phone line. Another solution would be DSL/Cable but that too would be ruled out if its new construction.
Need a bit more information as to 'construction projects'. Mainly how to do plan to connect. The rest is fairly easy to put together but you may not like the end-price for the desired result.
'I cut it twice and its still too short!..'
- Brent
Well, I actually had some time to investigate this further. It seems that the company I mentioned yesterday, HomeontheCam actually provides an exterior housing structure to enclose a cam server and all of the Internet components. As for the cameras they are mounting them on camera poles for exterior monitoring and using wireless cameras that are moved throughout the interior of the project. They also boast that their systems can record video upon motion detection so you can record video for added security when not monitoring. Seems fairly turnkey, this is the page that I found that has shows the components used in this system:
http://www.HomeontheCam.com/products.html
What do you think? I am going to give them a call today to find out more. As for the price I am not sure. When I find out I will pass it along. It sounds good now. Now lets see what the price is.
Thanks,
Chuck
I'm curious - what exactly is the purpose in doing this?
Redneck Extraordinaire
Originally I was just looking for ways to monitor a remote jobsite so I would not have to drive to the location as much during construction. I was also thinking that the cameras would be a nice way to reduce vandalism and theft on-site while helping with productivity as well.
I just found out that it is also possible to make live video feeds available to the public to market yourself and specs online as they are being built. I am not sure if there are other vendors providing this service but Home On The Cam is doing this. There site is http://www.homeonthecam.com.
-Chuck
I guess I was concerned about "productivity" being the reason for the cameras.
I worked in a truss plant where the owner had cameras installed. He had the monitor installed right by his desk where he could watch all the work stations. He claimed it was installed for security reasons, and so he could do time studies on how long it took to do jobs, etc.
What he actually did was sit there and nit pick every little thing that went on in the plant. When he saw something he didn't like, he would storm out to the plant yelling and screaming about what he had seen.
What this accomplished was to cause a lot of mistrust between him and the workers. And it definitely hurt morale. The guy never once used it for time studies in the 5 years or so that it was in place. And since he turned it off at night, it certainly couldn't help with security. Since most thefts happen at night, I doubt it would have helped with security anyway.
If you have productivity problems, this isn't the solution.
Although I admit that the marketing thing sounds interesting.....
Redneck Extraordinaire
Yea, I did have that thought regarding productivity. But really if you think about it why would the guys working for me have issues with me watching them unless they had something to hide. I do not want them to feel like big brother is looking over their shoulder but I do want them to take into account that they are on a job site and should be accountable for their actions while on the clock.
Besides that is just one aspect of the system. Unlike your old boss, I will leave my cameras on at night. I have had way too many theft and vandalism problems not to take advantage of every resource I can find. I can see how this could be seen as micro managing my projects, but in all reality time is money, and we all know that if you sit back things will go South in a hurry. At least that has been my experience.
-Chuck
I think there are better ways to increase productivity that with security cameras. You need to work on motivating the people, not spying on them.
Redneck Extraordinaire
That is the problem. I trying to manage twice the projects as I have in the past and I am spreading myself a little thin. This camera system is not a means for spying but a means for remote managing. My thinking is if you can't be physically be on site then the next best thing is click through interaction. I do not have a problem with jobsite moral. I respect my workers and care enough about our product to take steps to ensure I am not neglecting either. I am not placing covert cameras on my sites. I am planning on making it very know where they are and what they are there for. I am even planning on having a wireless camera that can be moved around in the event someone has a question or something they want me to approve. They can just walk it over to the site and show me first hand. I do agree with you that in the wrong hands this could be abused. In addition, I am just looking into this. I plan on testing this on one site before rolling it out to my other locations. Thanks for your input.
-Chuck
It is your job to supervise your workers ,not a camera. A camera will never supplant a human.
If I worked around a camera I would be pissed. Oh and by the way , you want to have all of your employees piss in a cup at least once a week. Way too much big brother thoughts going on here.
Your entitled to your opinion. I just feel as though the cameras will help make me a more effective manager and help keep me in contact with my jobsites.
The cameras are just an extension of my own eyes. If someone has a problem with me seeing what they are doing on the job then I do not want them on my job sites. What they do on their time is up to them. What they do on my time is very much my business.
-Chuck
Speaking as a 9-5 working stiff with just DIY aspirations, the question I am asking myself is, would my own productivity rise if my boss installed a camera on my desk? My honest asnwer is no. I would be insulted and offended, and I would probably quit within a week. But that's just me. There may be some people who may need just this type of "motivation" to get them going. And there may be some who could care less, and work just as hard or just as lazily as they have done before. There's going to be a good mix involved. And my guess is your work crew would be the same. If you have a good crew, a good many of them may already do good, conscientious work, and you may have a few lazybones who may or may not be motivated by the camera. In the end, you may chase away some good workers who are offended by this, as well as some bad workers who are loafing whether they are taped or not. And from what I hear, good workers are harder to replace.
I agree, good work is hard to find but still think if you are doing good work then the cameras should not be an issue. If someone has a problem with me having the opportunity to log in and check up on my jobsites then they must be doing something they don't want me to see. I would not consider someone a good worker if they were hesitant to let me view their work. This is my stance if I am physically on or off the jobsite.
Edited 5/2/2002 3:25:16 PM ET by chuck
>> ... why would the guys working for me have issues with me watching
>> them unless they had something to hide.
>> If someone has a problem with me having the opportunity to log in
>> and check up on my jobsites then they must be doing something they
>> don't want me to see.
So you wouldn't mind the police stopping by your house every now and then to do a spot check for heroin or child pornography or Class III weapons or bald eagle feathers, since you're not holding any of those?
It'll be interesting to see what happens. Let us know, if you dare.
"So you wouldn't mind the police stopping by your house every now and then to do a spot check for heroin or child pornography or Class III weapons or bald eagle feathers, since you're not holding any of those?
It'll be interesting to see what happens. Let us know, if you dare."
My reply to the above is this:
What?
I think your taking this out of context. We are talking about monitoring construction sites not the violation of any privacy laws.
>> We are talking about monitoring construction sites not the
>> violation of any privacy laws.
If the other posters are representative of construction workers in general, and I think they are, then from the point of view of your employees, you are talking about an invasion of privacy. You believe they have no right or reasonable expectation of privacy, and the law is probably on your side, at least in the US. But I believe that the people who do the best work do so at least in part out of self respect, and I predict that some of the ones with self respect will see the installation of cameras as a sign that you don't respect them and will find another place to work.
The 'if you dare' was because you give the appearance of being so sure than only those with something to hide would object to the cameras. If you do install them and some of your best people quit, I predict you won't come back here and tell us about it because you have so much invested in being right. I also predict that if you install the cameras and some of your best people try to get you to remove them by threatening to quit, you'll let them go, because you'd rather be right than compromise to keep a top notch crew.
This is an experiment. I will let my experience dictate its effectiveness. I simply want to do a better job than the next guy and my workers have always respected me because of my determination to do so. I just want to take on more jobs to ensure we have a profitable and secure future. Keeping food on my top notch crews table is another concern addressed when we do it better than the next guy. I am looking for ways to do my job more effectively helping the company thrive as a result. Here is a link to someone that is doing something along the lines of what I am talking about. http://www.powers-homes.com/
This guy is doing this as open to the public site. I am considering not using my system for marketing but this is an interesting avenue as well. I really think this is going to be the wave of the future. Cameras are everywhere...your on camera at intersections, ATMs, shopping malls, grocery stores and numerous other unseen locations. I am at least giving my guys the courtesy of knowing cameras are present.
I am considering using my cameras as a point of difference when bidding jobs. If you can allow your architects, realtors, possible buyers etc. the ability to log in and view your projects in progress it is just that much more valuable of a tool. Your thoughts? I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong...I just don't want to be the guy who is too bull headed to give my ideas a shot.
-Chuck
Edited 5/2/2002 7:13:38 PM ET by chuck
Edited 5/2/2002 7:15:56 PM ET by chuck
This is an experiment. I will let my experience dictate its effectiveness. I simply want to do a better job than the next guy and my workers have always respected me because of my determination to do so. I just want to take on more jobs to ensure we have a profitable and secure future. Keeping food on my top notch crews table is another concern addressed when we do it better than the next guy. I am looking for ways to do my job more effectively helping the company thrive as a result. Here is a link to someone that is doing something along the lines of what I am talking about. http://www.powers-homes.com/
This guy is doing this as open to the public site. I am considering not using my system for marketing but this is an interesting avenue as well. I really think this is going to be the wave of the future. Cameras are everywhere...your on camera at intersections, ATMs, shopping malls, grocery stores and numerous other unseen locations. I am at least giving my guys the courtesy of knowing cameras are present.
I am considering using my cameras as a point of difference when bidding jobs. If you can allow your architects, realtors, possible buyers etc. the ability to log in and view your projects in progress it is just that much more valuable of a tool. Your thoughts? I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong...I just don't want to be the guy who is too bull headed to give my ideas a shot.
-Chuck
Edited 5/2/2002 7:13:38 PM ET by chuck
Well, you asked for input, and by my count six people responded. One guy was skeptical of the technology, and the other five were negative to extremely negative about your proposed application. I think the marketing angle is interesting, although I'm not sure what it would do for you that still photos wouldn't. And the idea of the crew being able to show you something they have a question about is at least plausible, but you could get that benefit by having a camera on site and letting them decide when to turn it on.
You said only those who have something to hide would object to being monitored. Do you really think the five of us who objected here are all thieves or slackers? Does the fact that five out of six respondants hated the idea suggest that your employees may also be less than enthusiastic about it? Have you considered the possibility that your crew requires close supervision because your wages or management style drive away the guys who could work unsupervised while you work somewhere else?
Here's an experiment you can try. Find a way to ask your crew anonymously how they would react to a monitoring system. Paper ballot or black and white marbles or something like that. Make sure it's really anonymous if you want their real opinion.
That's a good idea. I hope you realize that my intentions are nothing but good and I feel my crew know this as well. Thank you all for your input on this. If I do in fact move forward I will let you know. Enjoy your weekend. I was planning on attending a Cinco De Mayo party with a cowboy and Indian theme. Can I borrow one of those bald eagle feathers for my headdress ;>) (Grin)
Thanks,
Chuck
My Dad always said not to do anything that couldn't be published in the newspaper! I'm a computer programmer by trade and have always assumed that my work is being monitored whenever I am on the company site, and I have no problem with that. As a potential customer, I like the idea of being able to see a work in progress without interrupting the work. It's ironic, I think, because the same people complaining about cameras probably would complain about customers visiting the job-site. So, I think it is a good idea, at least as a test. If your crew hates it and you find yourself watching them work instead of working yourself, then forget it and move on.
Chuck,
I've just skimmed part of the thread, so I might be missing something here, but it looks to me like (i) you asked for opinions on using jobsite camera's, (ii) people spent some of their own time to advise you that they thought it could easily offend the people on-site, and (iii) you then argued with their freely given advice.
FWIW, I wouldn't work for you because I don't have much respect for someone who evidences such a lack of respect for others. If you have all of the answers, why the heck did you ask? If you don't understand why someone would resent being watched all of the time you don't have much insight into people, IMO.
Just my opinion and impression.
Bob you also forgot to mention that he plugged his web site way more then needed. One plug would have made me curious, but a link in almost every post and twice in some. I smell SPAM for dinner.
As soon as he hinted at what might be a good selling point for buying the cams I thought. What no one has a cell phone there? Only a retard would not think to call for a progress report. Then I had a picture in my head of watching harry butt cracks all day,and I made up my mind that the Job site cam is a loser.
"Then I had a picture in my head of watching harry butt cracks all day,and I made up my mind that the Job site cam is a loser."
ROFLOL!
Bob:
Actually, I was under the impression that this was an open forum. I was just informing others of what my intentions are. I did not wish to disrespect others opinions...I actually found them most helpful in making my decision to move forward with my test. I do want to hear from both sides of the fence. Once again, I have had trouble in the past with vandals, theft as well as a lack of communication from time to time due to an increased work load and the remoteness of some of our projects. This is just an attempt to solve these issues. Thank you for your opinion.
-Chuck
Well if your idea is to improve your effectiveness, why not let the foreman/lead carpenter have the controls. that way if there is a question he can call you on the cell phone and have the camera pointed at the area in question. You talk and while you're talking, or asking about progress /whatever/ the background would show you what you want to know.
Nobody feels big brother since the foreman could control things.
ON full time? too much big brother for me....
Frenchy
Yea, the camera could be a great tool if used properly. Kind of like a fax is used when dealing with archt. & engineers. I think as a marketing tool it would not be so red hot. ( crummy views and no movementof the camera and a dirty lens most likely.)
Tradespeople have enough stuff to be careful around on a jobsite. Does anyone think that people aren't going to drop stuff on the damm camera, or texture it or paint it or put a board directly in front of it or use it as rebar or set a bunk of lumber on top of or paint it or hang their coat on it ........
Well since I will need Internet connectivity on-site to support the camera feeds my foreman can watch the feeds from the trailer as well and notify me by phone if I need to look at anything. I am not trying to run my projects without on-site management. I just want to use my camera system to help compliment it and increase my connectivity with my sites while possible working as a marketing tool as well. I will not be sitting back in the office just watching my jobsites. I just want to know that I can look in if needed.
-Chuck
I have these same concerns regarding cameras being messed with on job sites, but it seems that the guys I am talking with have it figured out. They have several projects live right now that you can see that are taking the marketing approach. Check it out for yourself:
http://www.homeonthecam.com
As for the safety of the equipment. They tell me that they are not having problems due to "special mounting techniques." They also tell me that the packages they are selling come with three wireless cameras for interior monitoring. I guess you can move them throughout the inside of the project and they can still connect to the onsite camera server. They told me that this does require someone to make on-site adjusments and move the cameras as needed. They did not have any interior feeds available at this time that were for public access, but said these are coming soon on some of the projects that are currently live. They also said that they have had minimal problems with people messing with the interior cameras on past projects and they do monitor all public feeds that are posted to the site and will notify me if this ever happens. The way they put it to me was that the feeds are their webiste content and that they monitor them in order to ensure that those who visit their site have something to look at.
I also found out about prices which I said I would share with you:
Here is what I was quoted today: $8,000 including the following... 5 cameras total, 3 wireless all of the housing units needed to have the cameras on-site over the entire project, rebroadcasting so my project will be on their website as well as linked from my own and a camera server. I asked for the self-installed price. I guess they set everything up before delivery so all I have to do is plug it in. They also said as an ongoing service they would configure my server for all of my upcoming projects remotely. Again, here is the link that they gave me with all of the equipment on it:
http://www.homeonthecam.com/products_html.
I really don't know much about this stuff other than what I was told and I am not sure if these are the only guys doing this or not. If anyone knows of someone else can you please let me know. I just want to make sure I am getting a competitive bid. Your thoughts?
-Chuck
I guess I gave you the wrong link to the products:
http://www.homeonthecam.com/products.html
-Chuck
I have these same concerns regarding cameras being messed with on job sites, but it seems that the guys I am talking with have it figured out. They have several projects live right now that you can see that are taking the marketing approach. Check it out for yourself:
http://www.homeonthecam.com
As for the safety of the equipment. They tell me that they are not having problems due to "special mounting techniques." They also tell me that the packages they are selling come with three wireless cameras for interior monitoring. I guess you can move them throughout the inside of the project and they can still connect to the onsite camera server. They told me that this does require someone to make on-site adjusments and move the cameras as needed. They did not have any interior feeds available at this time that were for public access, but said these are coming soon on some of the projects that are currently live. They also said that they have had minimal problems with people messing with the interior cameras on past projects and they do monitor all public feeds that are posted to the site and will notify me if this ever happens. The way they put it to me was that the feeds are their webiste content and that they monitor them in order to ensure that those who visit their site have something to look at.
I also found out about prices which I said I would share with you:
Here is what I was quoted today: $8,000 including the following... 5 cameras total, 3 wireless all of the housing units needed to have the cameras on-site over the entire project, rebroadcasting so my project will be on their website as well as linked from my own and a camera server. I asked for the self-installed price. I guess they set everything up before delivery so all I have to do is plug it in. They also said as an ongoing service they would configure my server for all of my upcoming projects remotely. Again, here is the link that they gave me with all of the equipment on it:
http://www.homeonthecam.com/products_html.
I really don't know much about this stuff other than what I was told and I am not sure if these are the only guys doing this or not. If anyone knows of someone else can you please let me know. I just want to make sure I am getting a competitive bid. Your thoughts?
-Chuck
Well...let us know how it works out, and how it's received by your crews. Personally, and if I may quote you saying that your 1) overseeing twice as many projects, and 2) are being spread to thin....I'd think that you either need to do less, or start delegating more. Now, I'm not implying that there are some control issues here, but if you want to maintain your high level of productivity and quality, you should either take on less work, or get help in the management of it...otherwise, both (quality and productivity), will eventually suffer. Cameras might work, might not...but remember it's nothing more then another tool; now you'll spend time watching that instead of driving...so I'd weigh carefully whether or not another tool that has to be watched will really alleviate your current problems.
Hello, I just wanted to let you all know that I've decided to work with HomeontheCam.com. I feel that this is going to be a really great move for me and my company. I will keep you all posted about my new experience.
Thank you,
Chuck
Edited 5/10/2002 1:06:04 PM ET by chuck
I like the idea of being able to get a problem solved or a change OK'd without having to wait for the powers that be to show up an OK it, especially on a remote job.
I also think that anybody that had a problem with it either had something to hide or wasn't very secure in their ability to do the job.
Also , being the comedian that I am I couldn't resist having some fun with it. Like putting my eye up to the camera.
Dave
Aside from me smelling a scam that Chuck's trying to sell this BS.....if U are for real, why not just hire people that you trust?
Lotsa stuff happens that the boss and the customer don't need to know about...as long as it get's fixed...right. In my former life as an employee I'd quit the site...and now as a sub I'd pass the job...and as a contractor I'd laugh at the customer that wanted a 24/7 video feed. A thief is the first person to think everyones out to steal from him...I'd run before I walked away from that mindset.
Remodeling is all about trust. Hire the contractor you trust...in the hopes they hired the worker guys he trusts...to get the job done. What's that say to yer pretend customers..........you don't trust the guys you are sending into their homes every day??? Every hear of on-site management? Or you too important you can't be spared? Jeff "That's like hypnotizing chickens........."
Chuck,
I was thinking that this could backfire in a way that has not been mentioned.
I am assuming that not everyone on your job site is your employee (ie you us some subs). You have limited control over the behavior of these guys. You can throw them off your site, complain to their boss etc. But once these guys are seen by the public fighting, taking a leak etc, the damage to your rep has been done.
What I'm saying is a lot of stuff happens on job sites that the public ( realtors, buyers) don't need to see. You might rethink allowing public access to another RealityTV program.
I can imagine some of this stuff making it onto a blooper show at the expense of your good name.
Just a thought.
To everyone else. Share some stories of some of the worst things you've seen on a job site.
I know that I wouldn't want to know what has been thrown into stud cavities in some buildings.
Mike
Actually, the parallel is not your home; do you resent store-owners watching for shop-lifters with cameras, or the police monitoring intersections, or security guards monitoring subway platforms, parking lots/garages, lobbies, or elevators ?.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Hmmmm.... For $8,000 plus the time in setup (per jobsite, camera... plus), the wireless time and the expense of setting this up in terms of man-hours. It seems like its getting a bit expensive, isn't it?
I can readily see doing this for theft protection if you can illuminate the area. Even this would work dubiously at best as the camera is still fairly easy to negate.
A thief's first thought isn't that someone is going to steal from him its how do I get out of here so I am not caught though being stolen from later (No honor among thieves) is definitely a real concern. Now, I am not nor have I ever been thief past those marbles I stole back in second grade. Don't get me wrong - lol. But talk to a career thief or burglary and thats what they will tell you.
Now that most of us disagree with the purpose of the camera in general. No big deal if you really like the idea. Great! So be it. I would ask if you could put a camera on yourself for a reverse feed every time you are watching the job site that someone could in turn monitor your actions back at your desk as well. Turn about being fair play and all. Do this and I think you'll hear fewer complaints and I am assuming that you don't have any infants on the job site that likewise require nursury monitors as well. If not don't treat you folks like that either. If you can't trust your people - don't use them unless theres a circumstance that your particularly wary of.
I would likewise suggest with the +$8,000 price tag that you could parade a sorority house of young women around the job site in bikinis and sell subscriptions to the web site as it seems that thats what this product is really aimed at. Though sanitized to make it sound like its something its not, this product is really aimed at the subscription type "services" that allow you to provide your own "Jenny-Cam". I think that was the original name of the person who started this voyeristic theme accross the I-net. If I am wrong, so be it but its close enough. Probably wouldn'nt get much done the first couple of days but the newness wears off everything would settle back down to normal. And what a way to market to craftsfolk! Woohooo! Half-naked women at the job site!
Sorry, some of the above is a bit scarcastic but the intent is still in the right place.
- Brent
'I cut it twice and its still too short...'
You're fairly adamant about defending your position to us on the use of a remote camera. However it's not us that you have to convince that you're being a "remote manager". The people that have opposed you view are just trying to give you an honest opinion and you don't like the answer.
This very subject was just discussed a few weeks ago on the business board about customers using cameras to "spy". You may want to check it out just to get an idea how your peers, fellow business owners, view the subject.
Scott R.
Edited 5/13/2002 9:37:16 PM ET by Scott R.
All:
My position is simply this. I am not putting covert cameras on the site. I want my guys to know they are there. I have actually informed my guys that cameras will be in place within the week and they are on board. Now if someone is to "take a leak" in front of a camera then they know good and well what they are doing and I will take action as a result. The way I look at it is my sites are just like my office and if someone were to come into my office and take a leak on my desk they will be looking for another job. I provide Jonnie on the jobs for my guys and if they choose not to use them then they should be held accountable. I do not discourage having a little fun on the job but the point is they "are on the job" and should act accordingly. Just my stance. Oh yea, HomeontheCam just informed me of their referral program. If any of you guys decide to do this as a result of this forum then you need to tell them Chuck Strends sent you ;?) Maybe then I could afford the extra staff you guys keep suggesting. lol. How is that for a Spam sandwich?
-Chuck
Edited 5/14/2002 11:00:30 AM ET by chuck
I'm with you on this, I don't slack at work, however with a cam watching me work, I'd be pretty pissed, would come across as the boss not trusting me or the rest of the guys there. If you can't trust your employees you should probably get new ones
I personally would rather see the investment in people instead of cameras. Why not promote someone to site manager? You can get more from a person in real time than you will ever get from a camera.
See what you made me do, no more lurking.
Lou
Nothing to prove and a lot to learn