A kitchen cab install I started and got paid for the work I’ve done called me today.
The GC want’s to speed up the process and asked me if I’d pull my contract for the remaining work.
I’ve set the bases and the contract says I go back after the stone top is in place.
Stone top was to take some time..so I’m booked up in the in-between…
They’ve called to feel out my schedule….guess the customer wants to see more progress…..
And I keep saying let me know the countertop date and I’ll be there after….
Just like we signed on…..
So now I get the call …seeing as how I’m real busy…..would I just take a pass on the uppers….and let their crew do the install…
Maybe or maybe not have their guys finish all the detail trim too..that wasn’t clear….
So I’m wondering…….I have a “cancel clause” in my homeonwer contract…
Not much aside from scope and price in there when I sub…..
I do have “after countertop is installed” in writting…
So I’m thinking I’m in the drivers seat here…..GC must think so because he had the lead call to ask nicely…..
So what..if any..would be a cancel fee or percentage.
What do ya think is fair?
I’m busy now…but things could dry up tomorrow and I’d be left without that already signed for job in the pipeline……
His line of thinking……I’m too busy to get to him next week……and his guy is standing there with nothing to do..and the customers are watching and getting pissed……
So what’s a guy to do?
I’m thinking an offer of…
Either a day’s pay to buy me off…..or I come in the next coupla weekends and knock things out..as much as no countertop allows….to still hold onto the job and help out the homeowners…….
Some cabs sit on the top…but they finally have the thickness to work from……
still have no idea how they’d expect the top guys to install….
bet about half the cab’s come un-installed as soon as the top guys walk thru the door.
But…that’s not my problem……
Who says what?
And….I just happen to have the next 2 weekends kinda sorta free…what if I was booked then too? I’d be thinking different…especially if I really had that money spent.
Not sure how I feel about this……..
I do know this GC’s poor planning and lack of management has started to become a pain.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery…..While U Waite
Replies
Jeff;
As a GC. and hopefully more organized than you say yours is, when I've gotten into situations where the client is all of a sudden wanting a big push put on, I explain to them there may be some premium for doing so.
If I have a deal with you, costwise and timewise, I have an obligation to you as well as the client. If my change in schedule slams you, then ethically, and perhaps contractually, I am bound to make you, at least, partially whole.
This scenario has happened to me a couple of times and, in both cases, I was able to negotiate a reasonable settlement with the sub, who. to be honest, is more important to me over the long haul than an impulsive client.
In my situations, the clients were content and understanding with what I had to do and what I had to charge them, so maybe I was just fortunate.
However, part of my role as a GC is to make these kind of issues work. It's one of the reasons we charge a markup on the good work guys like you do.
I'd hold the GC's feet to the fire some on this...
It sounds to me like the quality of the job could be effected by doing this out of order, which means that if I were in your shoes, I would be saying this is an all or nothing deal because it will reflect on me. I'll still be getting the callback to fix their screwup so I want the whole payment even if they do the work. But I'll do what ever it takes short of a heart attack to follow through and do the work on the right scedule.
Excellence is its own reward!
I agree, Odds on you get called in to fix any problems even if you did not make them. And what kind of delay we looking at? Doing the job right says wait for the tops, then thats what you do. Do you want to install crown molding on cabs install by others?
"I do know this GC's poor planning and lack of management has started to become a pain."
I think that it all hinges on how serious this is for you. As a GC I am frequently in the position of explaining to customers that they will just have to wait. In any custom project there are hundreds of things that can and do go wrong that push the schedule back. This is part of the process. We try to keep moving forward but it usually takes longer than the best case scenario. It is rare that the customer is not also a cause of some of the delays. The GC can earn his money and explain why the project is going slower than the customer would like. If he hasn't offered you some kind of deal, I would make him sweat at the very least. How accomodating you are is directly related to how much you want to keep working for him. Only you know that.
I agree with all that's been said so far....
But anyone have a pretend $ amount they'd throw out?
The uppers are bid at $1600......
that's for the box install plus the top trim stuff....a band trim....a kinda/sorta fascia....then the crown ontop of everything.....plus....the bottom cab trim that hides the full bottom skins.
Same bottom detail goes around the bottom of the island.
It's a pretty detailed kitchen. I've already custom built one cab that couldn't be ordered.....took the FF off one box and stuck it on another.....reconfigured the FF to fit the mirco in the lower...yet to be built..box.
I figure about 5 days.....4 if all goes well...6 if she fights me.
What % or dollar amount would you GC's feel is fair?
I'm not trying to beat up on anyone here....
Just feeling like I have a signed contract and that should be given some consideration.
As it is...I'll probably end up working the next 2 weekends to at least get the boxes built and up......but in theory.....
What sounds like a fair number?
I base my prices for GC's around $300/day....and go from there.
25% sounded too high...might "legally" be able to squeaze him for it.....but at least like the chance to be the one that decides if we work together again. I'd rather say no thanks..if it came to that..... than not get the call in the first place!
I'm thinking maybe $300 for the principal and the coupla hrs I spend on the FF playing with the new Kreg Jig.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Put the cons of each plan of action on one side and the pros on the other. Your path will appear.
I would offer $200 but be willing to pay $300. If I want the job done sooner, I would expect to pay more for it.
Thanks guys.
I'll try to decide what I'm doing on my drive in....
gotta run.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Your contract should have a cancellation fee, e.g., a sanction which makes it possible to cancel your contract but only at a premium. My says that if the contract is cancelled you pay me based on a percentage of completion of past work, and 50% of the remaining balance of work to be performed.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
i worked for a gc once(past tense)who was totally disorganized to the point that it was costing me a lot of time and money. They shorted me material time and again and no matter how many times i complained nothing was done.(note complain not charge .my mistake!).So after time the job super asks if it would be ok if they hired someone else to come in to do the ballustrade (asking somewhat sheepishly i should add).I said sure it would be fine but i would not be paying for it nor would any money be withheld from my bid to pay for it .he agreed .However, when push came to shove they asked me to credit them for this work (read slimey).
Sure, pull the contract, BUT, make an offer of your entire overhead and entire profit margin. Then you can dicker about what to leave out of consideration, like; no insurance O.H., no P.M. on your salary, or no P.M. on incidentals (screws and caulk,etc.) or what ever you figure into those.
SamT
well....
wrote up the release and faxed it off....
I'll attach a dummy version...
the I call the lead to see what the decision is.....as I'd not heard back.
he said he wasn't sure...then says they're gonna start handing the cabs.
So I get home and check the email....and I have an excited email from the owner.....not agreeing with my release....feeling robbed at knife point because I want $300......telling me he'll let me walk away from the deal....
Then said.....
"but the real reason you asked to be released is you are unable to complete the work in a timely fashion due to being over booked..."
I'm thinking he's finally gone over the deep end!
They asked my if they could "pull my contract".....
I replied back in clear and simple terms.....kinda reminded him they asked to cancel my contract..not the other way around....
something very very fishy going on here.
I said sounds like he already decided as they've started installing my portion of the work after recieving the release..so I'd be expecting the check....
But alos said I was gonna call the owner directly tomorrow...
sent off the email....
will call him tomorrow.....
I'll see if I can clean up his reply and post it.
I don't wanna go the magistrates...I'd love to work for this psycho's company again.....but this is getting nuts.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
his reply....
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
forgot to attach my release dummy doc.
this is what we started with....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Sounds to me like you've got a miscommunication. You start your letter with "In regards to my phone conversation with XXX XXXX" assuming those who read the letter will know what that conversation was.
Just reading your letter I'd also assume you're trying to get out of your contract. Because it's ambiguous. It nowhere clearly states that XXX XXXX asked you to let them out of the contract.
I'd assume you could work this out if you made clear you really wish to do the work and complete the contract, but they wanted you to cancel so they could speed up the job.
That's how it's worked out so far....
I was asked if I'd let them pull my contract. Gave them a price for my sig to do so and a time limit to let me know. Told him if that money was too much....
I'd have no problem honoring the original contract and get to the cabs right after the tops were set.
That was no good...as the GC wanted to cabs now set before the tops were in....
when I didn't budge....he went ahead and had his guys start the install.
I know it sounds confusing with him stating I asked for the re-do...
that part confused both me and the lead that made the first call.
as expected.....I called the unreachable on his cell a coupla times.....haven't got a call back.....I'm kinda hoping the install is completed before the tops are delivered.
Then I'll be thinking about going to the magistrate for a broken contract.
But I may be getting a check in the mail soon......same GC and the electrical sub got into it for something similar...my name came up as a point of reference....
electrician said he got real quiet after that and agreed to pay for what he owed.
Maybe I'll see the same flash of sanity?
They have the money...they just don't like to part with it.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Umless there is a misunderstanding , he sounds too weird to work for , however I like face to face talks which could make it clear up.
Tim Mooney
I would be surprised if this relationship continues, or any money changes hands based on your posts.
It also sounds like you are getting the brunt of someone elses bad planning.
The problem with subcontracting is often the two parties have competing/conflicting agendas. This contractor wanted you to provide a fixed amount of labor, and now wants to allocate your hours at his discretion.
If I was the GC on this one, I would probably be handling it the same way as he is. When they asked if their guys could go finish it, I probably would have said yes and left it at that.
Tom
You know I'm not in business for myself so take this with that in mind.
I will release you from the remainder of the contractwith no hard feelings regarding the incomplete work that has been paidto date or you may complete the original contract of which the work isavailable now. We have begun the wall cabinet installation as of today.
I think his closing words summed it up pretty well...
First, I've yet to have a boss that would so readily let even his favorite sub out of a contract that easily. So this guy knows it's his fault the time table got screwy and is looking to pass the "buck" (no pun) with grace.
Second, he knows he screwed up further by starting part of the work you were contracted for before your contract was canceled.
Sounds like he wants to make the realationship work though.....
Good LuckNever be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.