How much is the discount, if any that contractors receive from building supply stores? Also does every store give a contractor’s discount?
Just curious,
Thanks,
Greg
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Replies
Around here, 20% for tile, installed, to the builders that use them regularly, is one figure I came up with in one place and seemed the same in others.
Not exactly what you are asking, but a figure to think about.
10% at one lumber yard
Mostly 2% if paid by the 10th.
No disco at the Plywood Yard.
25/30 on Plumbing from the supplyhouse.
30 at the Lighting store.
Nothing at the cabinet supplier.
All require nothing down to order, 30 days to pay unless invoiced near the end of the month.
All disco's are certainly local and fluctuate with the amount of sticks you purchase. There is no set law on this disco-tech
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I'm curious why you ask, hoping it is not to assume what your contractor gets so you can beat him up over it. Or weather yuou are thinking about becoming a contractor.
I get different ammounts from each of the four suppliers I deal with regularly.
The amt depends on the volumn of business I do there as a general rule, and ranges - 0%, 2%, 6-7% and 10%.
This is dependant on my paying the bill within ten days of receipit each month and is not automatic.
So suppose I do work for you and you pay me late. I have to use my own money or line of credit at around 1% in order to get that 2% discount and maintain my credit in good standing. I also have other overhead coists attached to that discount. If there is any cash left, It is a reward for my own efficient money management and not really any of the customer's business.
Excellence is its own reward!
I'm thinking about taking the contractor's exam. Have built as as owner builder on two previous occasions and am going to be starting a new house for myself soon. Wanted to see if it would be worth it to become a contractor in order to save on materials.
Greg
Piffins statements are something I didn't think about. Why? I don't know because I have had to endure the question "do you get it any cheaper" too many times. For some reason customers have this misperception about contractors discounts. Believe me, you won't get rich on disco's unless you are a volume purchaser. I must have been in a rare generous mood to have not questioned you of your intentions. However, with what you are trying to do, I would think you smart to present yourself as a contractor in order to save some $'s. Be ready to fill out a credit app, and also be ready to not rcv. any break whatsoever. Many suppliers have the "list" price that no one pays, the slight disco that small time and owner bldrs pay and if you're lucky, the legit contractors discount, very close to the lowest sale price. You will benefit by having a line of credit, no deposit and a bit of time to pay. If you get more serious with this line of work, you have the start of a credit relationship. Be advised that if you don't use these accounts for a while, many will purge you from the system and you'll have to go through the same rigamarole getting credit again..........even if they all know you.........what a bunch of crap sometimes. Hey, best of luck in the New Year.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
In this case, the license won't really make any difference, IMO
Simply present your list of materials for net pricing as opposed to list prices. Don't stop at the desk. Go to the yard manager or contractor sales people and tell them, this is what it is and I'm looking for your prices.
Now tho - that won't always get you your best deal. Service is part of what I buy - deliveries, pickups, quality of lumber etc. You have to know how each yard operates to figure that oput and that experience is part of the way we make a profit - or not because delays and errors in deliveries can spell dollars and lot of them real quickly.
And you want to look at it from the lumberyard's side of things. A pro who does this for a living will be able to call and order his door and window package in twenty minutes to an hour or so unless there is a lot of custom detailing. A DIY will take that much of a salesmans time than that for just one unit. Which will the yard ber able to offer a discount to? What hope do they have for future business from you after they spend time educationg you.
It sounds like you are somewhere's in the middle of all this but it is part of what you need to have in mind when you are negotiating prices.
Or
You could shop at Home Depot which has no discount at all, selling at bottom price to John Q Public at large, with no service at all, and bear the cost of educating yourself .
Hope this all helps..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffen this is why I do shop at depot and lowes. For me it is like having a well stocked warehouse with no overhead. Service is a a good thing but the majority of my work is not large scale building materials it is more 10 of this 2 of that etc.. Everybody bashes these stores but I love the fact that there is one always within 7 miles and I can get there at 6 in the morning or even as late as eight.So being the low price no service open late store can definately have its advantages too.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Discounts, as most have implied here, are a function of a business relationship.
All in all, they don't add up to much when considering one's 'work time' involved in developing an order list, spec'ing the material, etc., and dealing with mistakes when an order comes in wrong (and if YOU blow it, restocking fees will negate your savings, not to mention ending up with a pile of a 'non-returnables').
There is, in my experience, quite a range in discounting for various items. Someone posted 0 discount for sheet goods, which I've found to be true, and no one will explain it.
And the discounts are also based on volume: In 2003, my materials outlay approached $200K and overall average on my discounts was 7.13% (I'm in the middle of getting ready for the IRS!). The bulk of my expenses were the components of concrete foundations, framing materials, roofing, siding, windows and doors, paint, flooring, and limited landscape items.
But some of the subs, like plumbers, electricians, HVAC guys get a better break, but, then, their work can be more piecemeal.
" not to mention ending up with a pile of a 'non-returnables')."
Have you been looking around my shop?
;)
.
Excellence is its own reward!
I think discounts are usually better with mechanical/electrical items than with lumber and custom order stuff like cabinets etc. But the one thing that always brings a better price is volume. If I am ordering 100 sheets of anything I can get a little more off from Lowes, HD or the local yard. And of course volume over the course of a year means a lot too. But rarely have I seen a discount offered, you usually have to ask.
From a purely business point of view though I buy different items different places. I never buy a faucet from Lowes. Do I think the ones they have are different? Nope. But they don't carry parts for them so if you have a new one that drips you have to take it back out and take it back. At the local plumbing supply house they will hand me a new cartridge and I am done. Cost me about 12% but worth it. DanT
I think the level of discount caries a great deal from one place to the next, as some have already said. But I wouldn't look for any big discounts. There just isn't much of a margin left in selling construction materials - The market it really competitive.
Most truss plants I've worked at give discounts to contractors. But they actually have to BE a contractor.
Sometimes I've gotten homeowners in who insist that they get contractor's prices, since they are acting as their own GC. I generally don't want to fight them over it, so I just tell 'em they're getting a contractor's price. They don't really know what they're getting anyway.
Our secrtary does her nails with white-out. When she dozes off, I go over there and write misspelled words on them.
Throw the concept of a "DISCOUNT" in the trash.
Be Decisive, pick out the best quality, realize that you are spending money for something you want, that is going to be a long term investment.
I repeat: from the start "You are SPENDING money!"
Empty your damn pockets ouy!!!!
Be willing to go for broke!!!!!!
The thrill of a discount wears off well before the sight of the quality of the workmanship and materials!!!
PAY FOR VALUE? DO YOUR HOMEWORK
Chipper Merry CHRISTMAS & Happy New Year!!!!!
1/1/2004
As others mentioned the discounts fall between 0 to 10 percent. To me this is only face value unless Im getting a percentage over billed to a customer. The real value in discount comes from faxing out to all companies a "request for pricing ". That form is a standard one. The real discount in my mind comes back in letter form. I want the bottom line, not the measured discount , but the one sending the fax back knows me for what ever thats worth. I order the cheapest items at each store or company unless they stop me from doing it. Sometimes going after it needs to be figgured in the price to having it delivered. One thing is sure to be true that it needs to be a hands off affair to me or I need to be payed for my time in picking it up. Sheet goods were mentioned and its true to form to no discounts. I can make money hauling plywood by the bundle from Lowes or Home Depot. Lumber yards cannot get in line with their volume . I was hanging a lot of drywall and I had the material loaded at Lowes each morning giving me an extra 20 percent over what the yards could do. I hung it off the trailer not spending time to stock it first which saved more money in not paying the yard stocking fees . Ive made a lot of money doing that . A percentage discount has no merit in that situation. I take each item in consideration.
Tim Mooney
Each of us has o view it in light of his own experience and business setup, but your trailer and time are not free..
Excellence is its own reward!
I realize we are different . You live on an island and get paid better than inland for living on said island in my opinion . You work for clients for the most part probably billing out the material at a mark up if I was guessing. The point here is that you are not passing a lumber yard every morning as all material is probably waiting to be delivered from the mainland. With that said ;
I live by the yards traveling out each morning to the job. Lets just put this assumption into the works for example. I price out to you a hanging job labor and materials on a "set bid" including labor and materials. I get a cash and carry price in bundle pricing that they actually "give me ". Lets say haul I haul 66 shts which happens to be a bundle . With the quanity I was buying they will hand load the remainde rfor the same price if necesary. The hanging price and the material savings to me makes the 66 pricing pay to me say 85 sheets for example. Im comming to your job anyway to work so the time lost is at the yard only . I get paid for stocking in the price so my labor is paid hanging off the trailer. It normally takes a free cup of coffee`s time to drink to get loaded , but I need to be at the yard in the morning to get other work while Im there and establish and maintain relationships that may be rewarding . Win win . Just one example . I can save money easier than I can make it right now too.
You probably mark all bills paid by you up a percentage of some kind . So you are marking up my entire bill for handling me and you are killing two birds with one stone which saves you time . I also warrant material and labor if I furnish it . It works is all I can say .
Tim Mooney
Edited 1/1/2004 6:41:27 PM ET by Tim Mooney
I'm not hittting you for the way you do it. Makes sense to me, especially the part about hang straight off the trailer (if it's not raining cats and dogs) but i'm pointing out that you probably lose 20% fuel mileage on the rig while the laod is following you, and you paid something for the trailer which has to be rated out over it's lifespan, and working the truck to pull it does add to maintanience costs over time, so while the labor is a wash, the savings on materials goes back to pay for the hauling and you are less cash ahead than it first seems..
Excellence is its own reward!
I agree that our discount isn't the huge "jewel" everybody thinks it is. We're not in clothing retail, that's for sure.
Each has his own best situation, but I've found a place (a guy in a place, actually) that has been fairer than others price wise, and delivers as well. His main drawback is my having to call again and again before I actually get him on the phone. But it's worth it, as he knows his stuff, and the discount adds up when the order is for a couple dozen Marvin French doors and windows!
The bottom line is the quality of the goods. Twisted lumber costs so much in the labor that any cost savings are wshed away in a heartbeat.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Just finished a job for a customer. Pretty wealthy people.....Like the idiot I am I accidently put a nail into one of the spring inserts on a Marvin dbl hung while putting up the trim (I wished they'd have a red warning lable on it like Anderson does...)
Anyway, I'm waiting for the MArv tech to call me back to let me know when he's coming to fix it for me ( $250 the first hour and $75 each additional...ouch).
The customer refuses to pay me the last payment which includes material she bought besides the window on "my" acct at the lumberyard..My head was ready to explode....Grrrrr.. They nickled and dimed me like you wouldn't believe.....after the fact.
They wanted to also know what my discount at the yard was...huh????? They paid about a mil for their house over 15 years ago so you can imagine what its worth today..and theyre haggling with me about my discount and refusing to give me close to three grand for the last payment..
One other thought I was looking to mention/ask here.
In my contract it stated that I was to include the "installation" of shelving in the closet I built....about 5X6.
They decieded to buy stand up racks and want to deduct the cost of the installation.I told her that I figured in about an hour for that at $75 per hour for me and my helper//////even figure 2 hours if ya want and she says no way.its a full day...OMG!!!! She broke the contract and I don't write in every nail into a job contract so where am I with this? I had the contract broken down pretty good but as you know we don't give separate prices for every piece of molding we install.
Looks like I may just have to sue them for what I think I'm due.
Thing is people like that don't really think you'd take it that far...that you'll blow it off....not me.
So my 2% discount for payin on time is a joke and people that wanna go into this biz have to learn that there's more to it than that, a whole lot more.
Even my discount at my cab supplier is a joke when you consider all we have to go through to get the deal/job done besides what you see on the wall....$300 on a $10,000 set of cabs..big deal.
I wonder if this customer of mine who's a doctor has patients asking him what kind of discount they get for medication.....ya know?
Where's Shglaw when ya need him...
BE a head ready to explode
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 1/4/2004 10:41:10 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
andy.... i made the mistake of letting customers charge on my account.. it usually turns into a mess.... and they save almost nothing..
i think i'm going to force myself to keep my mouth shut when my inclination is to make the offer
on your current job.. you have 2 options that i would pursue.. get the marvin part and fix it yourself... then do her punchlist and keep smiling.... chalk it up to your continuing education
or... stop trying to pacify her and draw a line in the sand... but watch out.. if you don't have an Arbitration clause in your contract, you could be heading for court..
option 1 is usually best.. unless you have one of those who is hell-bent to screw you as part of their game plan from the get-goMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
Yeh.I was going to do it myself but deeieded to just let MArvin do it with me there helping to get it done as quickly as possible.
I just don't want to even think about it anymore..I'll look at it as a lesson and learn from the tech how its done...although after this you can be sure it'd never happen again
And ya know?......the few hundred bucks she may try and rip me off for won't make or break me and I most certainly will take them to court after taking a buncha pictures when I meet the tech guy there.....as I said to Katrina....in court its what sounds "reasonable" to win a case.
A tiny closet like that.and she's saying a full day to put up shelves? Andddddd one whole wall is where the door opens into.
IMO if she says that to a judge.that she's holding out a days worth of money.I sincerely think he'd understand what kind of people these are.
Even judges get home improvements done...lol.
I'm pretty sure I'll get whats due me but I'm also sure I'll sue their azzes if I honestly beleive I'm due even fifty cents more....well,you know what I mean. Its the principle coming from a hard working caring guy.
Thanks Mike and
BE well to you and yer family
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
andy... my bottom line was...... forget the principle... move on.. get as far away from her as fast as you can... and stay the hell out of courtMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
I agree to a degree.
No one wants to go to court and things could even get uglier than I ant them too.....but....I also can't sleep at night if I feel that I went "beyond" the call of duty.sweated my azz off....gave them a really great job but simply because they feel power in screwing me/us....well its my duty to call em' on it.
Probably stupid but I've been known to be stupid.
I sued this Indian family a buncha months ago because they also simply didnt want to pay me..funny thing about them was that they were wealthier than god and stupid enough to write me an Email telling me what a great job I did but they felt that theit house was left in disary there "thousands" of dollars was gioing to extracted from the last payment.
I maybe had a silver dollar (maybe) sized piece of spacle drried up on their wood floor....and that was all.seriously!
I also had pictures..a real good reason to take tons of photos...ya never know!
I won most of my money in litigation from them.
Mike...sorry but it IS important to stand up for yourself for what you "know" youre due.
If they work me and get away with it than guess what......they're gonna work Mike Smith next.......so on and so forth.
Contractors/builders are treated like slobs by a whole lot of wealthy selfish people. Cause we get dirty.cause we sweat.....cause we make dust....but...we create the places that they raise their families.
Sure wish Sonny Lykos was here to jaw about this one.
BE paid what yer deserved and as Bob Marley said" Stand Up For Your Rights"!
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
as a small builder, i always have to haggle for discounts. if i don't ask about prices they always seem to go up, but as soon as i ask they come right back down again, it just seems like you have to keep everybody honest.
the most expensive parts of a house is the finish, rough in is usually cheap. those fixtures will kill you, and it does seem like the biggest discount is with the plumbing supply house-but you have to compare-ask for quotes to "run by the customer" because if you just go in and order the price will be more.
Heck i have to jump in on this one..... The internet has forced people to be honest to a degree... everyone knows or can find out what a good deal is... Yes everyone deserves a profit but kick me if you want... they don't have to make it all on me...
a few things i do... and i do it across the board
i always ask for the best price ( if they lower it later without a good reason i'll never trust em again)
i always offer to pay CASH upfront... i do it with plans, engineering, fixed price sub contrators... anyone i know and trust will be there and do the job... (money is cheap right now) if i save 10% i'm way ahead many times with engineers ect... it's more like 30%... sometimes if i don't know them as well I offer to pay when i get the bill... that means the minute they hand me an invoice i write the check... or pay them cash in hand...
I'll buy in volume... a container/truck load if i have to... IF i have a use for a third of that product NOW... i can usually end up with 2/3rds about free and i'm lucky i have the space and forklifts to move it around...
I buy close-outs, displays, old inventory, all my jobs are my jobs so i can spec as i go... more often than not this lets me use premium fixtures and materials where i couldn't afford to otherwise..
I'm loyal if i know you and you have ever helped me out of a jam once... I'll keep buying from you and i will give you the chance to meet someone elses price... (i don't care about a few hundred... but if we are thousands apart... I'll give you a second chance to refigure) I do this with banking and insurance... mostly insurance...
when i see a deal i buy it.... if it's something i use alot... know i will use... or can plan it into a project... yeah i might have 200 receip saw blades... and 10... 16" diamond blades... but if i'm buy'n for ten cents on the dollar... where better to put my money
it comes down to this... you make your money buying... the market says what you can sell for...
btw... i have a warehouse half full of sheet goods osb, t1-11, 3/4 t&g, (over turned truck insurance deal) also have 1x12 & 2x12 #1 pine 12-20ft long... truckload wasn't tarped so load was refused... yes its $$ tied up but the storage is basicly free... and it sure feels good to have it when i skip a trip to the lumberyard... and has to be better than cash in a bank
I know i'm lucky (or cursed) to be able to do what i do... but it sure feels good to do a 3million dollar project for 1 million and have high end fixtures and finishes...
pony
Sounds like your answer to them on discount is that since they have held up your payment, you are unable to pay the bill on time, you have lost your discount, so there isn't one and that the lumberyard will soon be filing a lein on their house for nonpayment.
They don't have to know whether you paid it or not. Let her sweat instead of you.
The Marvin -
Pop the sash out and the plastic cover on the balancce will pinch together and come out, revealing the spring where the nail is binding it. Use a sidecutter to nipp the nail off. Be sure you don't leave the cut end of it in the balance slot and peen the end over in the wood enuf that it doesn't catch the spring when you run it up and down. Then snap the cover back on, reinsert the sash. test it again, and smile..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piff
The nails are out but that ratty tat tat noise is still there.you think its a real easy fix doing it myself and just ordering the part? I just wanna
Be outta there
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
it was easy for me twice. No parts involved. The nail was sticking into the space where the coil spring sprang open and closed. So it twanged on each coil going past the nail like a kid's Tommy gun.
Nothing was broken.
Of course you might break something taking it apart if you aren't careful.
As I remember it the vertical plastic trim inserts the wooden jamb. The plastic is shaped in cross section like a hat track so there are little flanges that snap into a groove in the wood to keep it there, covering the balance mechanism. I got fingertips and/or putty knife to squeeze it together enough to beginn to pull it out from the top.
There was the nail, plain as day.
Plastic track cover snapped back in.
Voila!
you might be able to find a detail of Marvin's jamb online to familiarize yourself with the setup
heck, I might be able to my own self. Lemmmee se3e....
Excellence is its own reward!
since your nails are out, maybe there is a splinter of wood or plastic blown out the back that is making the spring catch..
Excellence is its own reward!
Andy
The spring, track or both may be suspect. If replacement is required, its easy...remove the sash, use a screw driver to unlock and release the pivot lock and allow the spring to recoil. Then you can pop out the bottom of the track and unhook the top. The only hassle can be the spring tension... but I've changed a couple myself without any problem. The tracks are available separately, but as piffin stated, look closely for interference...even if you have to remove the track from the jamb.