In a change order thread I started weeks ago, some one suggested this book and cd from the JLC website
Just came in the mail today, worth every penny
written by a contractor turned attorney ( guess he saw where the money was:) )
It should almost be a required book for new contractors
The FHB podcast crew chats about whether or not coil stock on fascia and rake trim is necessary.
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The problem you may run into when using written subcontracts, as I have seen, is that you'll get subs who'll ignore your contract, and not return it, signed. They'll get you the insurance certs you need, but not the contract. I'm never sure whether they are trying to be sly, or whether it is because they are bad businessmen, or maybe it is because nobody else they deal with uses contracts.
In commercial work, we wouldn't let 'em start without executing the contract, but in residential, I've taken to letting it go, until I get a request for payment. Then it's no signee, no checkee.
as I have seen, is that you'll get subs who'll ignore your contract, and not return it, signed.
so what's the problem ... no signed contract ... no start check.
Do U "demand" they sign your contract. When I sub ... I write up my own contract.
never made sense to sign the GC's contract .... I write my own for a home owner ... I write my own for a GC. Neight know what I'm intending to do ... my contract lets both know. I also make my own payment schedules for both.
Jeff
"Start check?" I am subbing sitework, excavation, foundation, plumbing, heating, electrical, insulation, drywall, and painting. No one is asking for anything up front.
New construction here must be different from elsewhere.
Have you bid anything to my bro in Pittsburgh? He's a GC there.
Have you bid anything to my bro in Pittsburgh? He's a GC there.
Don't think so. Let him know if he's looking for a top quailty/reliable sun for finish work ... tile/cab's/trim and finish carpentry ... I'm always open to making new contacts. I've never the cheapest sub ... usually one of the most expensive ... if only dollar's are factored in ... but I'm a bargain in the end!
Happy customers .... work above and beyond ... absolutely no babysitting required.
Plus ... I have a handful of other mechanical subs I could refer him to. All have the same standards ... true professionals.Get in ... get out ... and clean up after themselves.
But ... generally a "start check" is required! No one works out of their own pocket.
Jeff
Re "start checks.
Bear in mind that I am not a real contractor. I'm a retired guy that's diddling in it, one house at at time, with big spaces between for recreation. So, my experience with subs is from the three single-family new construction jobs I've done, those I've worked alongside while being an hourly carpenter on some fun jobs, and those I've lined up for a big job starting tomorrow.
I've only given up-front money to two outfits since I've been building. One was a plumbing and heating place I'd never done biz with, and the other was a mason. The mechanical guys will work with me now, and the mason won't.
I spent a long time in commercial work, on both sides of the table. I'm sure you know how pay draws go in commercial. No owner or GC would ever let a contractor get money in advance of work or materials.
I believe in, and practice, the "work complete and material on site" rule for invoice validation and prompt payment. I also believe that most or all of my subs have good supplier relationships, and buy materials on account. My payout schedules thus say that whatever you deliver to the job, and whatever work you perform, will be promptly paid for. If your scope is one that is continuous, without pull-offs for other trades, you'll likely see a check each Friday.
Im not saying Im gonna use everything in the book
but what a great starting place for people . like most things you read, gleen, modify.
Just got the book yesterday and didnt look at the ones for subs
but I am going to start a contract for subs, that covers change orders and a few other issues
and if they cant play by my rules, then see ya
no biggies, things I want to address
change orders, staying on schedule, and some house keeping rules ( smoking, clean up, etc)
one thing I didnt see in the book was a form like a power of attorney. Most forms have both husband and wife ( cold be partner and partner) signing everything. I need one that in the contract says the either one or both can sign for change orders
for example, our current house, the onw we had the problems with change orders. they live out of state. the wife spends 2 weeks a month up here, house has been a 6 month project. probabally met husband twice. If I had to get both signatures all the time, I woul dbe held up for days/weeks
It's in there for sure, re who can sign change orders. Look on page 74.
Re the sub and who can change his scope and how, go to page 242.
That language about subs and their change order process is in the long form subcontract doc, but not the shorter form one. But, as the author says, the shorter form one is typically used for a sub you've already worked with, and who knows how to play by the rules. Your first-timers will get the biggie . . . they'll moan about how onerous it is, too much paper, not really needed, etc. . . . tell 'em to sign up or walk.
"It's like this, Mister Subbie, I'm a businessman, you're a businessman, we're both in business to make money, right, and along with those risks we take to make our profits, there are potential problems and pitfalls. We need to reduce our understandings to writing, and this subcontract needs to be our understanding. Businessmen execute contracts, plain and simple. Tradesmen cash paychecks."
If I had to get both signatures all the time, I woul dbe held up for days/weeks
Don't they have fax machines by you?
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
thanks, I think I'll get a copy - sounds like just what I need!
ISA - I went back to the pprior discussion and read all 58 msgs, but never found the actual book name, nor the website address. Could you put them on line please?
JLC link and Amazon link
I ordered mine from Amazon because it was cheaper, awaiting delivery.