Hello from a newbee. I’m interested in changing from a solid type bannister to a spindle type. I’m wondering if there is a recommended read for learning how to do this. I want to use 1.75 spindles, as the length of the bannister is not only up the stairs, but across the building…40 ft or so. Any recommended books to read?
Thanks,
Tom
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Replies
Howdy, & welcome to BT.
By "solid," do you mean like a short wall, with plaster or wall board? If so, the answer will be "it depends."
Depends on what? Are there wires in the short, or "pony" wall? (Look for an outlet, there's supposed to be one every 12', so in your 40' there could be one.)
Are there any existing columns above or built into the existing rail?
Lastly, How does the "outside" face tie into the walls, and the ceiling below? That could complicate things.
Otherwise, it's easy. Go get a sawzall, and cut out the short wall in sections. Size the sections so they can be carried down the stairs. Don't tip them overthe edge, they will find anything irreplacable and breakable (even in other rooms).
Give us more detail, we can give more detailed answers. Photos are even better, if you have them.
Thanks for your reply. The shorty walls are panelled to the outside, one flat surface to the floor on the stairwell, and on the balcony it is solid to the ceiling below. Yes, there are wires running through the shorty with recepticles mounted.
The plan was to remove the panelling and then extract the wiring. I want to replace panelling with drywall anyways.
I'm guessing that the short wall on the balcony is like any studwall, but I dont know if it just attaches to the floor or do the studs go all the way to the ceiling below. The stair wall is probably the same.
I'm not sure how to install spindles. I looked at a job my friend did and he explained things. with a 40' span, I'm sure I'll need posts every so many feet, but I dont know any of the code. That's why I was looking for a book on how to do it.
I can post a photo or two, but will have to wait as I'm at work now. Thanks again for your reply.
Tom
I don't know much about stairs and spindles, but what I've seen and read generally shows the spindles mounted between a top and bottom rail first, then that whole assembly is put in place as a unit. On decks, there are spindles (square c/s balusters) that are nailed on as you go, but where the balusters fit into mortises, they are fit while the thing is on the ground, then it's all lifted into position.
I got some pics of the stairs & balcony that I want to replace with spindles:
Tom
Looks like it is time for some very careful surgery. I'd take off the "inside" panelling first, if only to get a look at the framing.
Where is the electrical relocating to?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'm just going to remove the electrical outlets. Will take the panelling out and see what I have.
As in another thread--always double check that the circuit you cut off is actually 'dead" before reaching in those boxes.
Actually, there's some code issues about spacing of outlets. Would not want you to have a really great stair rail in, and then have to go burrowing in the opposite wall to put outlets "back." Not that I would know anything about that, nope, not at all.
It looks like the "outside" paneling ends with some outside corner mould where it terminates at the ceiling. What sort of ceiling is back there? More panelling? I was just thinking about the intermediate posts/newels, you'll want/need in the middle of that long "bridge" run. Those will want some sturdy fastening--which means getting into the floor structure somehow.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The outside panelling ends at the ceiling below along the balcony. It goes to the floor on the stairwell. On the far end of the balcony, it terminates at an opening that has a firepole from the 2nd floor to the first. It doesnt tie into the far wall. So, I have a stairwell on one side of the house, the balcony spans the length of the house which is 45 feet and terminates to an opening for the firepole.
I dont yet know what I'm supposed to put in for the intermediate poles. It will need to be sturdy as you indicate. I dont know if I should use an over the post rail, or butt post rail. Just picked up some literature at HD, I couldnt find any books there concerning this.
Edited 10/29/2004 6:43 am ET by thomas11
Getting rid of those knee walls and putting in balustrade will open that area up nicely, and, I think, really make a big difference in the feel of the house. The reason it was constructed as it was was undoubtedly to save money.
Here are a few ideas. Start by removing 1 pc of paneling from the inside of the balcony knee wall to see if the kneewall was platform framed in a traditional manner - ie, a 2x4 wall built and then just nailed down to the walking surface of the 2nd floor balcony. It could be attached to the side of the floor system too. Re the proposed balcony guard rail, I would guess that you will need a newel post about every 6' or 8'. My thought is that for your situation, you will end up with a oak 1x6, or 1x8 (or whatever type of wood you select for the railings) laid flat on the floor of the balcony. This 1x will receive the bottom end of the balusters (spindles). This method would be in liew of the guard rail having a bottom rail. The thickness of the floor system, as viewed from the 1st floor, will still be covered with paneling or drywall, and this material will butt up under the afore mentioned 1x material with a small piece of cove, scribe molding or inverted base at the intersection.
Re the stair kneewall, can you access under the steps to see the backside of the stair kneewall? I would think that it goes all the way down to the first floor subfloor and helps support the steps. Do you intend to expose the ends of the stair treads and risers, or will you leave a small kneewall sticking up, that will hide the stair ends - basically, the same as what you have now, only about 32" shorter? Leaving a small kneewall will be much easier. This small kneewall would be caped off in the same maner as described above using the 1x6 or 1x8.
Re the electrical, what about relocating 1 or 2 of the outlets to the floor? Sparkies - what is the NEC requirement for receptacles in a hall - every 12' maybe? - just a guess - I should know that. I know that a receptacle is required on a hall 10' or longer.
Go to a home center and look at the stair rail parts - where I live they have free brochures right there with the material that will help give you design ideas, and help you visualize what you are doing. BTW - this project is not carpentry 101... but it isn't rocket science either. To me the main thing will be getting the newel posts securely fastened to (tied into) the balcony floor and steps, and of coarse a tight job on the joinery of the railing parts. Also, I wouldn't even think about attempting it without a miter box.
How about 1 more pic? - standing on the lower level, looking up at the intersection of the stair and balcony kneewall and showing the ceiling below the balcony.
Matt
Edited 10/29/2004 7:44 am ET by DIRISHINME
i'd watch that 40ft pony wall... in my own house i built it as a boxbeam and it's what holds everything up and together... if you cut mine out... well yeah it'd open things up alright...
p
Matt, thanks for your input. The stairwell is accessible from underneath. I do plan on retaining the mini knee wall on the stairwell, as you suggested it being easier. I just visited the home center last night and got some of those brochures you mention. Havent perused them yet. I can get another photo tonite.
I agree that the newell securing to the flooring is one of the main concerns. I do have a compound mitre box. Guess I'm just a bit tentative, I learn the best by experience/watching/helping others. I appreciate all the input so far.
Tom
I completed a job just like yours at my mother's house almost three years ago. Took out the pony wall and installed railing and balusters like you want to. Our job was only 35' though and it took the beter part of two weekends just me and my mechanically illiterate brother. I see you must have kids with the kiddie gates in the pictures so this should factor heavily into your plans, I know because my scaredy cat brother would not even go close to the edge when the wall was removed and while we were installing the newels and balusters he would not even go an the scaffolding always had to stay on the second floor.
You bring up a good point about attaching the newel posts, we opened up the subfloor about a foot and we used long 1/2" carraige bolts or 1/2 threade rod with eleatic nuts to bolt the newels to the existing floor joists. One of the hardest things about his is to acheive a regular spacing of the newels across your span. We wanted 5 bays, and unfortunately the floor joists were never in the correct spot so we shimmed them by adding 1 1/2 foot sections of 2x12 alongside the existing floor joists to get us in the ballpark of where we wanted to be. Don't tell my mother, but everyone of the bays were of a different length, the +/- overall was with an inch and you know what I have not had anyone ever say that the spacing was off, if I did I would make them prove it to me anyway. The bays were a little over 6 1/2' and I knew we did a pretty good job at securing the newels was when my 3 boys came over after we were done and started to climb all over it and it did not budge a millimeter. Also pay attention to baluster spacing, ours was less than 4" and the grandkids were mad that they could not get their heads through them, Darn!
Another thing I should tell you is about finishing the completed job. I took 8 man days to demolish and finish it, it took 10 man days to paint stain and finish it. Good Luck
Thanks for the reply. I need to check the local code for what the balistur and newell spacings are supposed to be, along with code height. I would think the 3ft hieght I have now is acceptable. I appreciate your newell spacing problem. I havent done any demolition yet to figure how I will attach them. My wife and son are going out of town for a week on the 15th, so I'm hoping I can make the transition then.