Replies

1. 
   Dewaltdog13 | Feb 25, 2005 05:16am | #1

   Charlie,

   I bought the Collins Coping foot at the Remodeling Convention in Chicago. It does take a little getting used to. Have you built the U-shaped box to hold the crown while you cope? I watched the Collins guy do it, and man, it was perfect and quick. Practice, practice, practice. I've been using it since October, and I think it does speed up things, not to mention saves the tendonitis if you've got lots of crown. There's probably some tricks to using it that Gary Katz could tell you if he graces your post with a reply. Besides him, there's lots of smart contractors floating around (e.g. Jeff Buck, Blue-eyed Devil, etc.) who might help too. Just depends if your post gets noticed...good luck.

2. 
   mikerooney | Feb 25, 2005 05:43am | #2

   Take the time to learn how to use the coping foot and you will not be sorry.

   If you search G. Katz's site, you'll find a tutorial he made showing how to use it.

   I didn't like it at first, either.

    

    

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3. 
   DougU | Feb 25, 2005 06:05am | #3

   I've never used the collins foot, dont see how I could cope any faster than I do with my right angle grinder.

   Get the flexable sanding disks, I like the 24 or 36 grit.

   With a little pracitce you can cope large crown very fast.

   Doug

1. 
   SantaCruzBluz | Feb 25, 2005 06:21am | #4

   I never thought of that, Doug. But I'm going to give it a try. I keep a very coarse sanding disc on my 4 1/2" grinder, and use it a lot...framing, everything else. Now I'm going to try it on crown, and have no doubt I can do a nice job with it. Do you just clamp it down flat, or do you have a jig to set it in?

   Allen in Santa Cruz

1. 
   DougU | Feb 25, 2005 02:23pm | #7

   Allan

   I've heard others on here say that they put two of the disks (back to back) on the grinder, that way you can cut both ways, it does make sense but I have never done it that way.

   I have a rubber wheel that I put my disk on. It gives it enough ridgidity to flex with out bending to easy. You can buy them at any tool store, probably at HD as well.

   For crown I usually hold the item that I am coping, I have clamped before but normally don't. Clamping it down would help, especially if your trying it for the first time.

   I hold the piece(trim) in one hand with my thumb sticking out, it usually touches the front edge of the grinder, that way I have a bit more control of it.

   Its hard for me to explain but if you practice on a few pieces you'll develop your own technique.

   I can cope a 6" crown in less then 30 sec, I don't see that happening with the Collins foot. (of course I dont subscribe to everything that Gary Katz says)

   Remember that if you use the 24 grit that it will eat the wood up fast. It will sometimes be to aggressive when you need to be a bit more delicate.

   Doug

1. 
   Mitremike | Feb 27, 2005 09:38pm | #16

   Ditto on the grinder method Doug--I shopped at my local Dw shop and they have a very stiff and thin backing for the 4 and 1/2 grinder. It holds the grit disk flat and I can roll it into the tightest corner. I have the Hitachi and it came with a rubber backing but I found it so thick that I couldn't corner out my copes. I have used 24 on hardwoods but back out to a 50 for softwoods so I dont eat the cope away so fast that I ruin it. Poor coping saw doesn't get the attention it use to.....Mike

1. 
   Lawrence | Feb 27, 2005 11:04pm | #17

   I agree with most of you, it takes time to get the technique down and once you get it you get it. I use a bosch as well, and do it by eye. The idea of using a jig doesn't appeal to me.

    Don't see how it would fare on barely copeable profiles, which knowing your stuff is the best way of dealing with it. Grinder on hand sounds like a good idea as well-but I've never used it.

   I rest the foot on the 45 angle and backcut the whole profile about 55 degrees by eye. I increase the cut visually where it has to be (out of instinct really). Once I am rolling most simple profiles are 30-40 seconds, more intricate or stain grade upto about a minute.

   If I was going to start doing crown I would pick up a bosch jigsaw and buy 3 lengths of crown to practice on. 70-100 cuts will have you in good stead.

   BTW, cutting crown is not only mastering the art of coping-also knowing which to cope. Using site lines to hide the seasonal opening as well. Backpriming-gluing the end grains to prevent seasonal shrink and expansion is the other half.

   L

    GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!

4. 
   bruceb | Feb 25, 2005 06:24am | #5

   Charlie,

                 I use a regula jigsaw. The collins foot is money wasted. After I cut the 45 on the crown I actually rest the base on the exposed grain side of the cut as much as possible. By doing so I get more than enough backcut. The big thing is not the foot of the saw it's practice. It takes a while. Get some scraps and practice.

                outline the profile with a pencil mark, make sure you hold the crown steady, be carefull if you need to pull the blade out that you pull it clear of the work or it will dig in. Practice away.

               I have a Bosch and use 101AO blades.

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Feb 27, 2005 11:22pm | #18

   Do you use a saw blade with the teeth pointing down?  If not, do you have much of a problem with fuxxy edges on the face?

    I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.

1. 
   bruceb | Feb 28, 2005 12:13am | #19

    Ed,

                     I have a Bosch and I use the T101 AO blades exclusivly for coping. Remember the old Stanley Shark tooth hand saws? They have a tooth pattern kinnda like that. Not really pointing up or down. They are thin and the teeth are fine.  Once you master them they leave a pretty clean cut. I seldom need to clean the edge afterwards.

                   Week after next I'm going to show my father how to cope with a jig saw. I'll take some pictures and post them here.

5. 
   tungle | Feb 25, 2005 08:25am | #6

   Charlie, I just coped the crown the first time today on the job with the Collins foot. It is great,but you have to use the right blade,Gary and the Collins foot maker recomment the bosch T244 but I use the Festool T244D which look the same. Trust me, with the right blade, you'll wonder how easy to cope the crown. It was the first time ever I installed crown and the client called me the expert,I know I am not.
   Good luck
   tung le

6. 
   DDay | Feb 25, 2005 05:17pm | #8

   This is Katz's collins advice

   http://www.garymkatz.com/Tool%20Reviews/CollinsCopingFoot.htm

1. 
   CharlieS | Feb 26, 2005 11:03am | #10

   Thanks for the link, pitures are worth a thousand words. There is definitely a learning curve with the Collins foot. Now that I'm done with the job and it's the weekend, I'll practice, practice, practice.

1. 
   Hooker | Feb 26, 2005 04:35pm | #11

   I have never tried the Collins foot, but have only hand coped like others here.  My favorite methods are a small jig to hold material, and a battery Dremel tool.  With the larger, coarse sanding drum attachment, I can do very well removing a hefty amount of material in the small areas cleanly and efficiently.  Of course it still requires a good coping saw blade and practice.  I also have an assortment of rasps with warying sizes and contours handy.ADH Carpentry & Woodwork

   Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail

1. 
   andybuildz | Feb 26, 2005 07:31pm | #13

   I agree with you totally....The dremel rocks hard.On my DW SCMS I have hold downs as well as the crown molding clamps....those things in combination work as good as it gets!
   Takes all of a cpl a minutes per miter if that.....and you know its gonna come out 100% on the money.By the way....does anyone use a hammer and nails to nail up crown? IMO that really ruins things in cases like crown or any molding for that matter.
   Be well
   a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

   When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

     I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

   I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

   I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

   and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

    

    

    

    

7. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 26, 2005 10:36am | #9

   I have the Collins Coping Foot.

   to it's credit ... I've never given much time in learning the curve.

   People who's opinion I trust ... mongo comes to mind, not to mention gary katz ... have said it's a wonder tool.

   I can't master mine ... then again ... each time I give it a try ... I'm also trying to not lose money on a job ... so I probably haven't invested the time to conquer it.

   I can cope most anything I run into much quicker with my tried and true coping saw. I actually have two set up that I keep on hand(ok... 4... 2 of each...plus an extra... so 5) ... one with a fine toothed blade ... one with a slightly more agressive toothed blade.

   I have them both set to cut "up" when the handle is held upside down(on the pull) ... sorta like the chinese ping pong grip. I hold the wood handle between my thumb and fore finger ... wrap my middle and ring finger around the metal frame ... and point my pinky finger politely at the floor.(had to hold a pretend coping saw in my hand to describe that!)

   I shadow a pencil line on the cut line for stain grade ... just follow the paint line for preprimed paint grade. Not sure if it's because I concentrate more or just a fluke ... but I cope better and quicker thru paint grade hardwoods and prefinished cabinet stock.

   easy coping paint grade pine gives me the most problems. But .... knowing that ... I just cope about a thin 8th away from my line then ... and quickly clean it up with a sharp new blade in my utility knife. For stain grade thru the "tougher" hardwoods ... I like to leave a thin 16th ... the shave down to that fine edge with the utility knife.

   I go thru more utility knife blades than I do coping saw blades when coping.

   And ... I cope most anything. Even paint grade stuff ... for practice.

   I already mentioned prefinished cab stock. But ... 90% of the time ... I miter and glue that stuff.(compared to the coped paint grade stuff ... I'm just weird that way?)

   for base ... I flip and zip off the straight line part of the profile at the miter saw right after I make the corner miter cut. Just cut the 45 ... then flip it upside down and make a back mitered cut down to the start of the ogee(usually the 22.5 detent) ... just kiss the reveal line ... I also switch back to 90 and zip off the titso it sets flush.

   now ... all ya gotta do is cope the ogee ... then cope saw cut into that flat reveal.

   crowns ... I hand cope the whole thing. I also cut back way more than I think I need ... I cope back as much as possible ... then clean up with the knife. Doesn't take more than a coupla short minutes. I've watched the collins foot videos ... I don't see how that's any faster than what I can do?

    

   anyways ... not much help here on the collins coping foot. I'd love to see it in action by a real pro. There's gotta be something simple I'm missing. I trust the guys that say it's the real deal. I have it at the ready .. fits right into my Bosch Jigsaw case!

   Jeff

     Buck Construction 

      Artistry in Carpentry

           Pgh, PA

8. 
   mike4244 | Feb 26, 2005 07:30pm | #12

   I cope exactly the same way Robert does. I use a Bosch barrel handle saw and a fine blade. I've coped thousands of feet of crown this way. Try it , very simple to learn.

   I make a straight in relief cut so the blade doesn't bind at certain profiles. The steps ( 90° flat profiles ) have to paper thin ,this method does it easily.Like Robert decribes, the saw base rests on the exposed endgrain and follows the profile of the crown. I have not used the coping foot, I see no advantage myself.

   mike

9. 
   Coz | Feb 27, 2005 02:57pm | #14

   I saw the easycoper (http://www.easycoper.com) at the woodworking show when it was in town. It's a jig that you use with a jigsaw. For $35 I might give it a try.

10. 
    davidmeiland | Feb 27, 2005 07:32pm | #15

    I'm going to get a Collins foot and try it out, as soon as I get a second jigsaw (drooling over the Festo saw). Until then, I cope by hand and it's easy to get it 100% right. I always make some sanding tools to cleaning up the cuts--adhesive backed 100 grit paper wrapped around scraps of plastic conduit (those work well on the inside curved areas), a sanding belt wrapped around a piece of 5/4 x 3 cut to the perfect length, and a two sided wood rasp that has a convex side... good for hogging off material.

    Having some scraps of 2x cut at 45 degrees and clamped to the bench is a must for me. I cannot backcut correctly without having the molding help up at 45.

11. 
    haley | Feb 28, 2005 01:49am | #20

    Charlie,

    The EasyCoper really makes coping crown molding with a jig saw easy.  It will not take you but a couple of practice runs to have it down.  Coping with a grinder is makes a mess, and I don't like breathing all that dust.  If you want to take a look go to http://www.easycoper.com  Be sure to watch the videos and you will see how easy it is.

1. 
   MikeSmith | Feb 28, 2005 08:33am | #21

   haley.. do you use one ?

   how long you been using it ?

    have you used a collins coping foot ?

   what blade is the guy using in the video ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   haley | Feb 28, 2005 02:19pm | #22

   Mike,

   I have been using the EasyCoper for years.  I have never use the Collins Coping Foot, but have seen it used.  I've talked to several people that have used it and they say there is a big learning curve.  Some people have taken up to two years to master the foot.  The best blades for using in the EasyCoper is a Bosch T119BO or a T101AO.

1. 
   JerBear | Feb 28, 2005 02:35pm | #23

   Is that the Bosch scrolling blade? By the way, I just ordered this product. Thanks for the link.