I have been asked to do copper kitchen countertops on a job. Bending and forming the copper I do all the time for roofing work, but have never had to bond it solidly to a substrate.
Any recomendations on an adhesive that might deal well with the different movement rates of copper & plywood/particleboard? I think contact cement would be bubble city with as much as a 15º temp change.
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Replies
Don't glue it at all. bend it tite and wrap all edges.
If ya want a classy look, use a "C" channel all around the edges, but on the top of the "C" make a flat seam lock, make the top with a corresponding flat lock, and hammer it all down tite. No sharp edges and the seam creates a slight lip so spills wont dribble down the face.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
OK , I can bend it all tight and do the c chanel , but the center of the countertop still will be a piece of 16 oz copper, loose from the substrate. I think it should feel solid .
Jay,
Assuming you use a heavy enough gauge of copper, I think Sphere's suggestion is a good one. I could offer alternate suggestions, but all would be much more labor intensive to the point of not being worthwhile compared to using heavy gauge copper with no bonding to the substrate.
WSJ
Hey , give me alternates.
I am used to working 16/20 oz copper,heavier than that I don't know.
Roofing work is supposed to "float". A counter should feel solid.
I want to make a solid feeling copper counter, if it can be done with thin-16 oz sheets, I am looking for how.
Bend it to fit. Don't glue it. It will want to move "slightly" as the temperature changes. It won't flop around in the breeze. It's a counter top, not a counter flashing. I've done several similar tops. The biggest concern you've got is how to handle corners and ends. Fold it smart since you can't solder.Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
Grant, Have you ever TIG welded copper? Would that work for the corners? What about brazeing ? My copper kettle is brazed at the dovetailed joints. A TIG also makes for a very fine "flame " for brazeing.
Grant, Have you ever TIG welded copper? Would that work for the corners?
I have not, but it can be done. Try doing a search for it here. I had a discussion with Terry Smiley (slater) several years ago and he's done quite a bit of it. I haven't seen him around recently.
edit: I found it. http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=34964.46
Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
Edited 11/4/2005 7:21 am ET by seeyou
"Hey , give me alternates. "
Jay,
If you are concerned about the counter feeling (sounding?) solid, place a piece of rubber like sheeting over the substrate, then put the copper over that.
WSJ
I remember my grandparents had a copper coverd coffee table that always felt funny to set a drink or other object down on, because the copper was loose-bubbled away from the wood below. Perhaps that table was just poorly fabricated ( GP have been gone along with their table 25 yrs) but I am trying to avoid the same type of thing.
Thanks all that replied.
I will post pic's when done.
There is an alternative.
For my house, I bought from a Chemetal dealer, copper laminate which is just copper bonded to typical laminate. Contact cement and trim with a router as usual.
Interesting Idea.
I would have to rethink my edge details to use it though.
It also costs 2x as much as solid IIRC. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
yes, it is about 230$ for a 2x8 sheet.
I was wondering if you follow th suggestions of not gluing the copper, what happens when someone sets something hot down on the counter and the material expands--won't it buckle or bubble? I guess it'll go back when it cools and I suppose glue might not help, but....
I have a thin stainless steel sheet bent to fit over particle board sub for my counter top . No glue , a hot pot will lift the spot off the particle board . Then as it cools set the pot back down .
the lift is less than a sixteenth inch. and after it cools there is no evidence that it had poped up.
Okay, good to know! Makes sense it would work that way, and glue would probably hinder the settling back down.
I made a smallish bar one time with a copper surface. Although the copper is held down by molding around the edges but, like you, I wanted to make sure it would lay flat in the center so I just glued it with contact cement. I figgured that if it loosened up, I would be no worse off than if I hadn't used it, so why not give it a try? It worked fine and is still tight after a few years of use. YMMV
Mike Hennessy
How about a material like vulkum put on with a notched trowel? It would stay flexible, but I don't know about material compatability or if it would dry right.
There are severl special adhesives used to waterproof behind tile that might work too.
There are no electrons! It is all made up. Don't believe it.
Electricity is made by GREENIES.
As opposed to contact cementing it down couldn't you apply a few "flat" beads of silicone, or even a fine skim coat of silicone.
I'm not sure that this would work, not sure how much the copper can expand and contract in realationship to the substrate.
Doug
Does'nt the acidity in the silicon react with the copper?
Hilmar
Not sure! I never really thought about that.
Doug
It does, but not much. I used silicone caulk to glue 16 oz. copper to my exterior doors. Peeled off the excess, got a very small reaction at the joints. Before I used the silicone I tested a bead.
Bear in mind that not all silicones are created equal. On the advice of a friend, I used the cheap stuff. Been a couple of yrs. I used the same silicone on the copper panels I used to side my house. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I have copper in my kitchen. The front edge is folded down and under as are the ends. The opening for the sink (farmhouse style) has a "C-channel running around both sides and back. Channel is covered over the top by counter piece and nailed with copper nails every inch or so. The copper was glued down to substrate when they were installed but some sections have since delaminated. We don't generally put hot pots on the counters. It hasn't really bubbled up much and you wouldn't notice without pushing down on it.
Andy
"It seemed like a good idea at the time"