Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 19, 1999 05:09pm | #1

   *
   It bends. Stick an iron pipe or wood dowel inside.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 19, 1999 06:16pm | #2

   *Nice and concise!The greater the diameter and thicker the copper, the stiffer. The 1" type L I'm using for deck balusters is quite strong. There is a type K, and you'd likely want a greater diameter.That said, you probably don't want copper. It will turn brown if left exposed. Consider brass?

2. 
   Mad_Dog | Oct 19, 1999 06:28pm | #3

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   Andrew: I like this copper baluster idea. I'm assuming you want the tarnished green look, or "patina" as Steve Thomas on TOH so pukingly overuses! Would like to know more.

   MD

1. 
   Lisa | Oct 19, 1999 06:58pm | #4

   *I put a copper and cedar deck and surround around the clawfoot tub in our bath. It has developed a really nice (sorry Mongo) brown patina with green patches. I also really like the idea of using pipe for balusters. Andrew, want to give some more specifics or post a pic? What is the spacing, bottom detail, handrail?

3. 
   Guest_ | Oct 19, 1999 07:03pm | #5

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   To confess, it is an idea lifted from none other than FHB! There was an article several years ago called "A Furniture-Grade Redwood Deck" or something like that ... where are the FHB indexes? oh here:

   A FURNITURE-GRADE DECK by Scott Fleming

   Hidden fasteners and integral lighting streamline a
   contemporary, Craftsman-style deck
   FH #106 / p.90

   Good article with lots of detail -- for example, they also used pipe as dowels, and used a contrasting wood for joinery -- we're talking about a deck that must have cost nearly six figures.

   Anyway, the copper quickly takes on a deck dusky brown cast if left outside. The green takes a lot longer to develop -- depending how polluted your air is! -- and i will probably clean it off if it starts staining things too much. The brown is complementary to clear-stained redwood, I really like it ... I used clear all-heart to box in pressure-treated posts, and all-heart for rails, copper for post caps. The rail is costing more than the (small) pt-and-trex deck did!

   This project has been sidelined FOREVER but it is finally showing some progress now that I have some time at home. I'll post something when i can.

   Lisa, the rail design is standard vertical, spaced just under code 4", plus a 2x6 uppermost. I used a Forstner bit to drill the rails; the 30"x1" balusters go from top 2x4 rail to the bottom rail, 4" gap below, with a couple extending to the deck surface for intermediate support. Haven't done it yet, but plan to use ss finish or beheaded standard nails to lock the pipes in the holes. Not too much details -- clean, few fasteners showing, and inexpensive were priorities.

   Stair handrail -- suggestions welcome! I think redwood would be more hand-friendly than pipe ... plus, as discussed, copper is a bit soft.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 19, 1999 07:12pm | #6

   *Lisa, Apology accepted (in lieu of Mad Dog?)PS, Andrew, it does sound quite nice.Lou, back to your problem...copper is often too soft to carry the load imposed on it when used as a closet rod. If you're set upon copper, try sliding/inserting a typical wooden closet rod/dowel of appropriate thickness inside of the copper rod. If you have a smaller diameter, you could insert black pipe or something similar, I suppose.It shouldn't be to tough to get a decent match, and it will stiffen the copper tremendously.I had a project some years back using copper tubing as balusters, quite similar to andrew's use. The inspector nixed the idea due to his perception as copper being too easily deformed and thus not providing proper safety. I went ahead anyway, but inserted lengths of rebar inside of the copper. He didn't know. He visited the site, got a bit angry, we had already made a mockup and had it ready for him to take his anger out on. A few kicks, a few yanks, he relented. The client got their desired rail, I got several referrals, the inspector learned there are ways around certain "problems" and to open his eyes a bit beyond "standard".

4. 
   Lisa | Oct 19, 1999 07:23pm | #7

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   Oops!! Thanks and another appology to Mad Dog. I'm only halfway through my first gallon of caffiene this morning....

1. 
   Lisa | Oct 19, 1999 07:32pm | #8

   *Sounds great! I agree that redwood would be freindlier. Maybe imbed a copper wire at the edge or along the top? Also, do your kids a favor and install a handrail at their height - it makes learning to go up and down SO much easier! It can be temporary if neccessary.

5. 
   Guest_ | Oct 20, 1999 06:27am | #9

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   Already have such a handrail in the house -- and he loves it, knowing it's just for him.

   Embed a copper wire -- and electrify it? Nothing in the Code says you can't, right? Seriously, an interesting idea, I have some extra #6 solid ground wire. One of the great things about doing this kind of work for clients is that you get a great junk box out of it.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 20, 1999 07:50pm | #10

   *I designed a similar rail system some years ago. The primary designer was a friend of mine, and she spec'ed the rail. Due to a dispute with the owner I didn't build the project, but I assume the rail design got built. I called for 1/2" copper for the balusters. They were cheaper than 2x2. Redwood is not particularly "hand friendly." It is one of the most splintery woods there is. Big nasty splinters. They fester in your hands.I have used EMT (electrical metalic tubing) for railings and closest poles. It is strong, can be easily bent, is reasonably rust free or can be painted, and is cheap. Bent corners on railings and closet pole is a nice touch.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 21, 1999 03:50am | #11

   *Problem: With handrails, minimum cylindrical diameter is 1 1/4". So 1" copper pipe is out, 1" galv will work; EMT I have no idea. Handrail must also be uninterrupted, except by conventional brackets or newel posts at landings/corners.I have seen lots of brass railing systems, esp. for boats, maybe stainless too.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 21, 1999 06:24am | #12

   *I would agree that it might probabaly need something on the inside of the copper to give it a little more strength. Sounds like a novel idea.Ed. Williams

6. 
   Ben_Carnes | Oct 21, 1999 08:46am | #13

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   I saw a bathroom some years back in which all of the accoutrements (towel bars, t.p. holder, etc.) had been made of copper pipe, suetted cleanly, allowed to age to a nice dull brown, and sealed (probably with a varnish or urethane). It was a very nice, almost arts & crafts look....and cheap to boot. I believe he had even made a magazine rack and a simple standing lamp with shade to sit on a little table. I was quietly impressed with just a hint of awe.

   A closet pole would work fine if supports (tees with struts down or up to the wall to 1/8th bends to high-ear hico fittings) were placed often enough.

   Good luck....be daring......keep the fire extinguisher handy.

   -Ben

   Question: If you ate pasta and antipasta, would you still be hungry?

   View Image

1. 
   Mad_Dog | Oct 21, 1999 06:14pm | #14

   *Lisa, no need to apologize. It is a good word. I guess Steve T is justified in using it everytime they use copper for anything, which is every roof or gutter system they put up!MDxxxxx

1. 
   bullet | Oct 21, 1999 07:02pm | #15

   *no, you would cease to exist.

1. 
   Lisa | Oct 21, 1999 11:13pm | #16

   *Yeah, I have always wondered why copper is common for hidden-away stuff (yes, I know, durability) but not used for other kinds of detailing. I thinkit is a wonderfully tactile material, that reflects use gracefully. When I did the tub surround, the HVAC guy I got to do it gave me the funniest look...

1. 
   Steve_Bond | Oct 22, 1999 05:42am | #17

   *Lou: While copper may look great at first, that patina will rub off. I hope you have a good dry cleaner, the stuff in that closet will eventually get stained.Did you ever look at your hands after you've worked with copper pipe for a while?Maybe you could find some kind of sealer, or a clear sleeve over the copper?Steve

7. 
   Guest_ | Oct 25, 1999 04:25am | #18

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   To keep copper looking shiny, I believe you can simply coat it with shellac. For the closet rods, I would use spray shellac from an aerosol can and give it several coats.

   Davo

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 26, 1999 07:05pm | #19

   *How well does this hold up to coathangers?

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 26, 1999 07:29pm | #20

   *I think the copper closet would be a bad idea. The tarnish mentioned earlier is a factor, plus copper doesn't provide a good sliding surface. If one wants a fancy rod, why not a chrome plated brass rod, such as is used for showers?

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 28, 1999 08:48pm | #21

   *I'm just wondering how this discussion went from closet rods to balusters. They seem a just a bit different to me. By the way, copper tubing for a baluster is just not a good idea - it's not strong enough to support the weight of someone leaning on it. Wouldn't want grandma falling down the stairs, or even worse, off the balcony on her first visit to the new house.

1. 
   Guest_ | Oct 29, 1999 12:37am | #22

   *I disagree -- diameter and thickness are major factors, though. A 1" type L copper pipe under 3' long is unbendable by ordinary means.As for grandma, well she's made it pretty far as it is....

2. 
   Guest_ | Oct 29, 1999 06:58pm | #23

   *People very seldom lean on balusters, which are verticle members of a balustrade. What they lean on is the rail which is supported by the balusters and possibly newel posts. Current codes require that a 4" ball not pass through the balustrade. With balusters 4" + o.c. even 1/2 copper is adequate in combination with posts.If you don't know how this thread went from closet poles to balusters, you must be new to this forum.

3. 
   Guest_ | Oct 29, 1999 07:43pm | #24

   *Now I'm forgetful -- is the webbing below the guardrail supposed to resist some specific amount of force, or is it the guardrail. I remember 200 lbs. in any direction as being the number. I suppose Uncle Vern might decide to take a run head-first on all fours into the balusters or something. He always been ... different, since he fell out of that tree.There are a lot of sources of brass rail. It also would not be difficult to lacquer the copper when it had the desired patina. Whatever wears off probably won't affect the clothes. Copper sure beats brass on cost.

8. 
   Lou_Fleming | Oct 29, 1999 07:44pm | #25

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   I'm building out a custom closet & thought copper pipe would make an interesting closet rod. Has anybody done that? Any problems?