Replies

1. 
   DavidThomas | Apr 06, 2002 07:15am | #1

   I've seen this done (by a couple of hippies Port Townsend, WA). They had a copper countertop that had gone to light brownish patina except where lemon or orange juice had been recently and those spots were bright copper.

   I liked their handrails more. They had used 1.25" copper (DWV I think - it's a lot cheaper) and buried the pipe in steaming horse manure to give a mottled brown patina. Then covered with a clear finish (ask at a marine chandlery) to perserve the finish from getting rubbing/chemically altered. You could sweat DWV fittings (which have a wider sweep than supply pipe fittings) for bends or use a big hickey (get from an electrician or rental yard). I assume cow flops would work as well. Personally, I stay away from pig poop for olfactory reasons.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
2. 
   Splintie | Apr 06, 2002 08:30am | #2

   Mike, you can get the factory printing and oxidation off with one of those copper cleaners used for copper-bottom cooling pots. The product i use is called "Twinkle". I cut my balusters to length with a tubing cutter, then mounted them in a lathe at very slow speed and used a wet Scothbrite pad loaded with the cleaner and wrapped it around the pipe and worked my way slowly from one end to the other, rewetting as necessary. While it was turning, i wiped the dark grey residue with a clean damp cloth so it wouldn't dry in a film, but i still needed to clean them with soap and then i sprayed them clean with the garden hose and left them to dry lying on saw horses so they didn't touch anything before i sprayed them with 3 coats of lacquer, for interior use. I don't know if you could preserve their soft coral color with a different king of tougher clear coating for exterior use...?

   There are also a number of patinas you can buy to give the copper a "look". Here's a handy page that gives you an idea how the different patinas will appear when applied to copper:

   http://www.point-five-windows.com/patinas/patinas.htm

   I used 3/4" diameter copper pipe for my balusters, but i think i would go with 1" if i were doing an exterior space; i think the 3/4" is just to the good side of wimpy for my stairwell. I used a big brass footrail that came out of an old tavern for my newel post--handled only with gloves, for sure!

   
   

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   Edited 4/6/2002 1:35:56 AM ET by splintergroupie

3. 
   bishopbldr | Apr 06, 2002 01:49pm | #3

   Mike,

   Some more ideas. If you want the copper to have the aged verdi-green look, wipe down with household bleach. They turn color fast. Then seal with an exterior clear finish after complete drying. Another product we have used for rail balusters is from http://www.deckorators.com . They offer 3/4"heavy gauge extruded aluminum balusters in different lengths and factory applied finishes and their prices aren't bad at all.

   Bish

1. 
   MarkH128 | Apr 06, 2002 06:00pm | #4

   Wipe it down with liquid acid flux. This will remove all contaminants from the surface, then you can do whatever you want to it for a patina.

4. 
   Piffin | Apr 07, 2002 03:04am | #5

   Will it stand for 250# of horizontal thrust?

   Excellence is its own reward!
1. 
   ahneedhelp | Apr 07, 2002 03:15am | #6

   re - 250-lbs of horizontal thrust -

   3/4" Type L copper may be able to if it's not too tall.

   On the other hand, I've seen plenty of wooden ones that would not be able handle such a load.

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 07, 2002 03:33am | #7

   The point of attachment would be my biggest concern.

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   MikeWillms | Apr 07, 2002 03:57am | #8

   Thanks for all the responses! I plan on using a Trex top and bottom rail, and drilling holes for the piping to slip into. Sort of along the lines of the article in FHB. I'm open to any suggestions on different types of pipe to use. I'm looking for durable, without much maintenance. I hadn't really planned on putting a sealer onto the copper, but I guess it's an option. 918 Contracting - Residential Construction

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 07, 2002 10:08am | #9

   I would consider a sealer because the first time a lady brushes by with a white dress on and it turns green, you'll wish you had.Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   IanDGilham | Apr 08, 2002 10:37am | #12

   If you're worried about it standing up to thrust, couldn't you put re-bar inside it as reinforcement?IDG.

   Edited 4/8/2002 3:38:50 AM ET by IanG

1. 
   Buglehead | Apr 08, 2002 11:26am | #13

   I did a rail in sunny Colorado that used 1/2" type L hard copper for the balusters.  The top and bottom rails were redwood treated with Penofin, and the copper was solvent cleaned and left to patinate naturally.  It still looks fine 6 years later.  At about 30" long, they are stronger than most of the weathered 2 x 2's one usually sees.  I would do it again happily.  I thought that it was the top rail that had to withstand the 250# thrust, not the individual balusters.

   Bill

1. 
   BungalowJeff | Apr 08, 2002 02:42pm | #14

   The 250# is on railing midway between posts and at the top of posts. If the copper is only to be used as balasters, they shoukd be okay. Otherwise, Ian's rebar idea should do the trick....that's not a mistake, it's rustic

2. 
   ahneedhelp | Apr 14, 2002 04:44am | #15

   Hi, Ian -

   It was Piffin who brought up the 250-lb thrust issue, not me.

1. 
   MikeWillms | Apr 14, 2002 05:20am | #16

   I think a 1/2" piece of copper dowelled into a top and bottom rail has more latteral strength than a 2x2 nailed. 2x2 might not break, but 250lbs of thrust would probably pull the nails or pop screws.

   In the end, I took someones advice on the DecKorator ballusters. They should arrive next week and go quite nicely with Western Red Cedar posts and rails with a Penofin finish. Thanks again for all the responses!918 Contracting - Residential Construction

3. 
   Egg | Apr 14, 2002 04:18pm | #19

   Not recommended.

   That would be joining dissimilar metals.

1. 
   IanDGilham | Apr 15, 2002 05:06am | #25

   I was just considering putting the rebar INSIDE the copper pipe as a precaution in case of impact.

   I wouldn't have thought you'd get electrolytic action in that case.IDG.

2. 
   Egg | Apr 17, 2002 04:08am | #27

   Any time two dissimilar metals touch they will make a battery.  There only needs to be one small point of contact and the corrosion action will start.

5. 
   Shoeman | Apr 07, 2002 06:07pm | #10

   The factory writing will come of real quick with a rag soaked with laquer thinner.

6. 
   archyII | Apr 07, 2002 06:12pm | #11

   I've used 1 1/2" "type L I think" copper for horzional rails.  I miter the corners with a miter saw using a carbide blade and braze the joints.  The pipes span 3' between supports and the corners are cantilevered 2'. Still looks good after 4 years. Laquor thinner remove the printing.

7. 
   royboy | Apr 14, 2002 06:02am | #17

   I do a lot of plumbing/HVAC work and have always enjoyed working with copper. A gorgeous metal and quite cheap as plumbing tubing, in my estimation.

   Did a deck a couple summers ago with 1" type L horizontal tubes fit into holes in cedar 4x4s. If I remember right, 3 parallel tubes with posts generally 4-6' apart. 2x6 top member/rail. Trickiest part was getting holes drilled right for stair rails (because of the angles). And then assembly was interesting, because of needing to put posts in place with tubes already connecting the - but it was easier than I expected.

   Looked quite elegant and clean. I cleaned tube with steel wool and paste waxed them. Should swing by and see how it's fairing, cuz I was winging the latter process.

   Course I was winging it in general, as usual ...

   Copper tubing, what a lovely material ...

   (ps just remembered that I did think that a good sized kid (like me!), if putting full weight on one of the horizontal tubes, could inflict some damage ... in that regard, I might rethink the size tubing next time, but 1" was a nice size visually. I'd think 3/4 or 1" would work for vertical applications)

   
   

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   Edited 4/13/2002 11:07:43 PM ET by Royboy

1. 
   ahneedhelp | Apr 14, 2002 06:04pm | #21

   re - I do a lot of plumbing/HVAC work and have always enjoyed working with copper. A gorgeous metal and quite cheap as plumbing tubing, in my estimation.

   ------

   Copper plumbing components are Legos for grownups.

   I love going to our large local (NOT Home Dump) supplier and browsing for pieces that can be used for non-plumbing applications.

   Always end up coming home with large chunks of elblows and transitions.

8. 
   BruceM16 | Apr 14, 2002 09:36am | #18

   Mike

   Funny...I thought the same thing after reading the article in FHB. So much so, that I did some measuring and took a trip to HD, where you can get 10', 3/4" copper tube for $3.40...should be enough to make 4 ballisters on a 36" railing.

   I'll be building this railing on the Oregon Coast, so copper should be just the ticket. My main concern is structure....I like the way the guy built his in FMB....installed the top and bottom rails with predrilled enlarged holes on the top and dowells inserted on the bottom...you just slide the copper ballister up into the upper hole and then fit snuggly down over the dowell at the bottom...perhaps with a bit of silicone to seal it. But this will offer no structural strength...indeed, it will add a static load (a little bit at least). Thus, I'm thinking of spanning only 60" and putting the redwood rails on edge for added strength. I will not put any kind of finish on the copper....just clean it and let its natural color evolve. I also worried about the green color erroding and running down the wood...but the above poster seems to suggest that won't happen.

   Bruce

1. 
   MikeWillms | Apr 14, 2002 04:53pm | #20

   I'm not to keen on the idea of using a dowel into the bottom rail, or using silicone AT ALL. I'm planning on drilling a 3/4" hole into the bottom rail to receive the balluster, and a small pilot hole underneath to allow water to drain.918 Contracting - Residential Construction

9. 
   J7223 | Apr 14, 2002 06:18pm | #22

   Hey Mike,and the rest of you guys,I finnaly figured out how to use the site,its a bit complex No? anyway we use 2''copper pipe for the detail in a lot of our projects,,mostly with the Ipe ones,,we use L type copper that has not been put thru the preasure test, its a lot less money. we build a 1x4 frame with the 2'' holes pre driled and put the detail inbetween the posts as a unit,,most of my customers want it to just go natural and a few wipe it down with corse steal wool every now and then,, John Hyatt deckmastersllc.com

1. 
   MikeWillms | Apr 15, 2002 02:13am | #23

   Hi John,

   Checked out your site. Nice work. Any pics of the weathered copper? 918 Contracting - Residential Construction

1. 
   J7223 | Apr 17, 2002 02:40am | #26

   Mike, I havent put my pictures on the site yet with the copper detail in the handrail,ghesss it is fast trying to regroup after sept11,,I just got the site up like in the last few mounths,,,I need all the advirtising I can get right now,,but the copper goes to a browngold kinda thing,,and stays that way for years,,I have a few out 4 years now and they look the same,,some of my customers have tuched them up with corse steal wool every now and then and they are a little more bright, I would never treat them to go green unless the customer wanted it,,I tried it before I put the copper in production and it does come off on your hand,,Lets go Get Em,,John Hyatt deckmastersllc.com

2. 
   ahneedhelp | Apr 15, 2002 04:05am | #24

   re - we use L type copper that has not been put thru the preasure test, its a lot less money.

   -------

   Hi, John -

   I wasn't aware there is such a thing in Type-L piping.

   Thanks for this tip.

   Alan