hd and lowes have 2 different types. one about $.20 a foot. and the other about $1.00 a foot. the boxes both list benefits of the products and the only difference i see is the box of the more expensive one says it meets all codes, or something to that effect. i’m finishing a basement and wanted to cover up the hot water pipes before i put in the ceiling and was wondering what people know about the differences. is it worth the added cost in the long run for the more expensive one?
thanks
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Might one be designated towards strictly hot water heat retention and another for intended use in an unheated crawlspace or of a more durable material?
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the only difference i see is the box of the more expensive one says it meets all codes, or something to that effect
Maybe the expensive one is plenum rated for less noxious fumes during fire? (guess)
Is the expensive one fiberglas with a white wrap? It's rated for steam, others will give off fumes if they get too hot.
You are probably looking at the difference between:
Armacell Armaflex elastomeric pipe insulation (rated for exterior exposure) - http://www.armacell.com/www/armacell/armacell.nsf/ansHTMLSeitenLookUp/USA_Frame?OpenDocument
and
Armacell Tubolit polyetheylene pipe insulation - http://www.armacell.com/www/armacell/armacell.nsf/ansHTMLSeitenLookUp/USA_Frame?OpenDocument
Jeff
the cheap one is more "open cell" it basically a dark grey. the expensive one is denser, more spongy, its more flexible, you could bend it around a curve, so in looking around the basement i noticed the insulation on the a/c copper line going from unit outside to the furnace looks like the more expensive of the two i am asking about. but it is one long piece, not the 5' sections they are selling at the stores.
A bit of a thread hijack here, perhaps...
What I wanna know is - is it worthwhile to insulate pipes in the first place?
No need on the cold water lines, except where they cross or run next to hot water or hydronics lines. There I might use a short section of insulation on the cold water line.But for the hot water and hydronics lines-- definitely. This is a no brainer. In fact, double it up on the long feeder lines that serve an area away far from your water heater or boiler.The main reason is that you get your heat where you want it,not where you don't.In my current house, all of the hot water and hydronics lines rise through one wall that falls right under the middle of the living room. We seldom use that room (typical of living rooms) yet it is the warmest damned place in the house. The only benefit I can see here is that I always know where to find our cat in the winter-- right under the sofa in the living room where it is like a sauna!
Cold water lines are often insulated to prevent sweating.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
Like all technial questions, the answer "depends".
It is worth it to insulate cold water pipes if you live in an area where they will sweat badly (either very cold water or very high humidity or both).
It is always worth it in chilled water cooling systems.
It is always worth it in heating systems that operate above 100 degrees.
It is seldom worth it to insulate domestic hot water supply pipes except in recirculation systems.
What I want to know is how copper pipe insulation can do any good. (I can see maybe insulation made from foam rubber, but copper??)
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
What I want to know is how copper pipe insulation can do any good. (I can see maybe insulation made from foam rubber, but copper??)
My point EXACTLY. I mean, it *conducts* heat, dunnit?
The reason to insulate the first few feet of both the supply and the outflow side is that it radiates heat out of the water heater even when not in use. This causes it to cycle more often using your money unnecessarily. Also the tube connected to the pressure relief valve radiates heat when not doing anything so insulate it.
You and Dan H are kidding, right? Insulation for copper pipe, not copper insulation for pipe ...
Read it any way you like.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
Insulation only holds in heat, it doesnt create it. Is it really worth appling at all?
If you only use the bathroom (for arguements sake) every hour the water is gonna cool down and you'll still have to wait for hot water from the tank regardless of the insulation.
When we had a home energy audit a number of years ago, the guy told us that it makes sense to insulate the first few feet after the water heater, but not anything past that. I don't recall what his explanation was, however.
If you don't have a heat trap at the water heater, it is always good to insulate at least the first few feet. If you don't have a heat trap, consider installing one or get the one way thermal 'valves' that prevent thermosyphoning from occurring. -
I have put in my share of water heaters, but I have never heard of a heat trap. What is it?
The simple approach is to run the pipe out of the heater high and then back down (use either rigid or flex) before you go off horizontally. This 'loop' prevents/breaks the thermosyphon action w/in the pipe.
There is also a product ... a couple of 6 inch galv. nipples with unique/simple one way floats (both allow the proper water flow direction in/out of the water heater). These one way valves prevent thermosyphoning. They are only maybe $10-12 and I think they are available at e.g. Lowe's/Home Depot.
Also almost all the new energy efficient water heaters have the heat trap fittings built in them.
No doubt ... makes perfect sense! ... although I'll bet my new one didn't now that I think about it. ... Bought a higher end Bradford White I think it was ... but the pipes get real warm.
This is an interesting topic, and one that I have thought about before. If my master bath is 55' from the hot water heater, and I only use hot water in that bathroom once per day (shower in the AM), would it be worth it to insulate the hot supply line? I seriously doubt it.I think this topic is definitely one of those "it depends on your situation" type questions.My wife has complained on several occasions that she has to run the shower for a minute before the hot water ever shows up when she is the first one to shower. But short of a recirculation pump, I don't believe that any amount of insulation would solve the problem when there is 24 hours between uses.
You're right.
I am no insulation expert but I understand that the cheap pipe insulation is open cell and will shrink with time. When it is installed, you are supposed to compress it lengthwise 10% so that when it shrinks no gaps will form. I am told this topic is in the manufacturer's fine print...don't know from first hand experience.
As far as insulating the hot water pipes it is definitely worth it for several reasons:
1. The water arrives at the point of use at a higher temperature so you can use less of it or you can lower your water heater temperature.
2. One wastes water getting the cold or luke-warm water out of the hot water line. If the line is insulated, the water stayes usably hot for three times longer than with uninsulated pipes. That means the a second hot water use is much more likely to be a "hot" start.
Bill
The more expensive insulation is better, especially if you use it for your boiler pipes. I bought some of each and with the good quality insulation, I could barely feel any heat loss. With the cheaper stuff, it was still quite warm meaning that it wasn't as effective at stopping heat loss.
I also think that the more expensive insulation is a bit easier to install (better quality tape).
I bought the expensive stuff from Lowes (fiberglass wrapped in some sort of covering) to use to insulate steam pipes. Unfortunately, all the tape failed after one heating season.
I recommend that you also insulate the cold water pipes to prevent condensation.