Which type (Type L or Type M) copper tubing is appropriate for domestic water systems, or is either OK? Coppertubing.org says that Type M is good, but I got some conflicting information the other day. I am in Massachusetts. Thanks!
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Type M is thinner, Type L is thicker
Type M is generally not allowed underground.
Type M is also used greatly in residential applications because it is cheaper
Type L is better
Either is acceptable for a home.
Edit: If you go to HD or Lowes and you want type L make sure you specify that and check the pipe. The local HD around here doesnt stock L
Edited 4/14/2003 12:34:43 AM ET by CAG
There are three:
K, with green print, is the thickest
L, with blue print, is the medium one
M, with red print is the thin one.
There's also a thin kind for DWV, but it doesn't have a special letter designation.
Here in L.A., the city allows M only for smitty pan drains and relief valve drains. L is used for most of the stuff that's under pressure, and K is required under ground. Things will vary in your area depending on the water and soil chemistry.
-- J.S.
Lowes seems to stock both L & M.
smitty pan drains Not familiar with that term...Do it right, or do it twice.
A Smitty pan is a pan about 3-4" deep and about 24" in diameter. It is usually used under a water heater to catch any small leaks or overflow. It is drained to the outside via an overflow pipe exiting the pan from a side hole and would not come into use until the water level in the pan reached about 1" in depth. If the water heater is located in the interior of the house, it allows an exit to the outside for small leaks, without soaking the surrounding floors.
Never heard it called a Smitty pan...around here everyone calls it the hot water heater overflow pan...guess we never met Smitty. I am surprised at the number of volume builders who still don't install them...what does it cost...$50 total? peanuts compared to the potential damage.
Do it right, or do it twice.
$50.00!! I bought one at Lowes last month for $12.86. Add a generous five bucks for drain pipe and an elbow.....
I suppose if running the drain line from the pan gets complicated....
Still.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Rich, I was being a bit sarcastic and overly generous for the builder. But I'm not far off. $13 for the pan, $5 for the pipe, a few bucks of labor to assemble it, etc, and the point is that for not a lot of money, a potential disaster is averted.
Do it right, or do it twice.
"Smitty pan" may be a regional Southern California term. I have a few in storage, so I looked on the bottom of one, and it has a sticker that says:
"Smitty Pan Mfg. Co. Lomita CA".
Lomita is one of those small towns that got surrounded by the ever growing Los Angeles in the early 20th century. Perhaps Smitty himself (herself?) is still there.
-- J.S.
I stand corrected on the smitty pan. I thought it was a reference to the drain pan for a condensing unit.
A smitty is someone that works with metal in this case I believe the reference is to air handler drain pans. Another term not real popular anymore for HVAC guys is tin knockers.
"Tin Knockers", I thought that was Madonna.
M is accepted here, but I use L on domestic water.
Here's how a plumber explained it to me when I was an apprentice.
K- Green, Underground (grass is green)
L- Blue, Domestic Water (water is blue)
M- Red, Heat (red hot)
DWV- Yellow, Drainage (pee is yellow)
And you thought all we needed to know was: hot on the left, cold on the right.......
Yesterday I couldn't even spell plumber, today I are one.
Hot on the Left,Cold on the right,Poop flows down hill & most important Pay Day is Friday... <G>...is there anymore that anyone really needs to know than that?
Hot on the left, Cold on the right... I wish whoever plumbed my shower would have known that...
I replumbed my shower at the last minute durring construction to switch the pipes so hot was on the left etc. The single handle Moen valve as it turned out was SUPPOSED to have cold on the left to work properly. I was right the first time. Have been using the shower for about eight years with the indicaters for hot and cold backwards on the handle.
Beware of rules of thumb, they don't always work.
The third rule of plumbing "sh!t don't flow uphill (without a pump)", BTW, has as much to say about social interaction and business management as it does with plumbing. Bad news and bad treatment just don't go uphill in a management structure. They go downhill, according to the guys in the field at least.
I remember the copper thickness by the word "MiLK". The thinnest M, for outside or under the building if I remember correctly, L for typical work, and K for government contracts where cost is no object (and someone is being milked).
Edited 4/19/2003 1:42:56 AM ET by Gary_Wheeler
On all the single-handled Moen faucets I've seen (no, I haven't seen them all), you can pull out the cartridge, rotate it 180 degrees, and replace. Your hot and cold will now be correctly labelled.
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
I once had one of the three stogges plumb a bathroom for me and the customer called me back a day later and asked why the water was coming out like steam in the bowl...and the cold in the shower and sink came out hot....oh boy...
Thats when I started to learn plumbing
Be dumb as a wall
Namaste
andy
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I remember it as "K is King" (ie K is the strongest of the three).
If I had a real memory I wouldn't need this kind of thing. Ate too many lead paint chips as a kid I guess....
Don't even have to pull the cartridge out. Just take the handle off and rotate the stem.
Yesterday I couldn't even spell plumber, today I are one.
Good point, but I figured without Moen's little plastic doohickey to rotate the stem it can be easier to pull out the cartridge and rotate. 'Course, if he does any of this without removing the copper horseshoe retaining clip, he's gonna be wrenching til it's broke. What do you use to rotate the cartridge: Moen's doohickey or needlenose pliers or ???
Regards,
Tim
I use the plastic thing most of the time, but have a pulling tool for the really tough ones. You don't have to rotate the whole cartridge, just the stem, the part the handle connects to. For those cartridges that work hard.... if they are the plastic ones, you can remove them, push the center out and lube it. I use plumber's grease and smear everything. Vaseline will work as well.
Yesterday I couldn't even spell plumber, today I are one.
Never seen a Moen that required cold on the left. Bet all you needed to do was rotate the stem 180 degrees. Moens are made to plumb back-to-back.
Yesterday I couldn't even spell plumber, today I are one.
Eight years?
Remove your Moen cartridge, rotate 180 degrees, and reinstall. Yes, it IS as easy as that. One of the advantages of Moen's design.
Good luck,
Steve
You forgot "Don't chew your fingernails".