After many discussions about valley flashings on the cedar perfection roof I’m doing with all kinda different people, I decieded to “call” the number on the Cedar Bureau website.
Turns out the NY rep lives about two minutes from me and knows my house. How weird is that?
Anywho…..he was calling me from Wisconson….seems they send him all over the country.
this guy gave me wayyyyyyyy more info than I wanted. After I was done with him I thought my brain was going to explode.
HE had me calling the copper bureau to find out the different thicknesses of copper for different applications and even asked me if I wanted to be on the cedar bureau.
He said that after speaking with me and knowing where I live and what I’m doing that I’d be a perfect candidate.
I told him I thought I could become a brain surgeon faster if I had to know all he was telling me. He laughed.
Anyway….the “one” thing I got out of it that actually helped me was “W” valley flashing.
Looks like a trinagle in the crease of the valley and the more I thought about it that night the more I could see what a great idea it is.
the water flows off the roof in two directions but in my mind it hits that triangle before it can splash up the other side of the valley. Great idea!!!
I call half a dozen roof supply houses and no one has it except one.
$11.00 a foot for 12″ valley.
I flippedddddddd. Dats over a hundred bucks for each 10′ piece just for that triangle in the crease when regular copper V.F costs $35 a piece.
I tried today to make a piece.
No biggie at all….three pieces for the price of one making it myself and not to mention the pieces I made exceed what I was going to be sold already manufactured.
Anyone ever deal with this product or even heard of it before???
BE well
andy
My life is my passion!
Replies
Andy
I use it everytime I do tile roofing copper, lead caoted copper tern coat stainless
and gavalume. I put a open hem on the outermost edges as well (tight in the brake
but not tight?) usually 2 1/2 inches high with a 1/2 inch hem.
Dan
Dan
I made mine witha 3/4" high triangle in the crease and a 1" return on the sides.
On the sides I closed it as much as possible with the brake and then with my figers I crimped it down even further but not totally ( I dont expect a tidal wave to run up the sides.lol
Hey.it even really looks good on the roof. A bit more detail....ya know?
BE happy with myself today
andy
My life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 5/5/2004 7:30 pm ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
I imagine the size of the center mostly depends on the profile of the roofing material.
The concrete tile I mostly used (roughly a hundred or so) was about 2 1/2 inches.
I have installed a few slate roofs and made the bend as tight as possible.
Dan
Hey Blacky, how much experience have you got with TCS? I've passed on bidding a couple of TCS jobs due to unfamiliarity with soldering/sealing it.
I have never soldered(sp) TCS only copper just used it for easy flashings.
Dan
Andy,
I'm pretty sure most of the roofers who use those make their own. I wasn't aware that anyone sold them with the "w" already bent.
They have been talked about on BT before.
I hope to be making them myself before the summer is over.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
They have been talked about on BT before.
Rich,
YEp, I've breezed through some of those posts but hadn't totally absorbed them being that it was far and few cedar roof jobs I'd done that required copper anything.
And I also remember the posts about tannins and the reaction of cedar to copper.
Was speaking with a builder friend of mine last night and seems he's spoken to that guy from the cedar bureau also.even met with him as I suspect I will soon enough.
The guy from the CB will be sending me a packet of info.
My friend said he also got that packet and it was thicker than the Manhatten telephone book.
Kinda cool if all you do is deal in cedar and can speed read....lol.
I'll let ya know how intense it is when mine arrives.
Thanks and be well bro
andyMy life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I use it on about a third of my valleys and most all the cedar ones. I thought that was what you were asking about when you started the last thread wondering how to do your valleys. I posted a photo of some here to frenchy to explain it to him. I'm really suprised you are just now discovering it. Some times we all assume somebody knows what we are talking about.
As far as price- one pound copper thickness is normal. For years the price of the4 finished copper was hoovering around $3.00/lb but it has gone up recently. How much I don't know. By time I get it broke at the sheet metal shop and delivered, it nearly doubles the price.
You should be using leaded copper according to one theory. There have been several threads here pointing out that there is a reaction between the tannins and the copper that helps it corrode and wear out faster.
So - it's that easy to be on the Cedar Beurau, ehay?
;)
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Yes the valley looks a lot better with the stand up in the middle, and like you said it works a lot better too.
I like to put a little soldered return on that stand up portion at the bottom of the valley just to give it the finishing touch.
I like to put a little soldered return on that stand up portion at the bottom of the valley just to give it the finishing touch.
Tom
Thats exactly what I was thinking myself....wanna elaborate a bit?
Be well
andyMy life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I don't know what happens, some of the message notifications are lost in cyberspace.
The tab that's marked with blue is from the hidden side, it's folded over to either go on the outside of the visible side or you can tuck it in and then solder.
I fabricate "w" valley for one of the local shingle suppliers. They previously bought Berger Bros. and it was over $100.00 for a 10' piece. On a side note, I use 18" minimum stock (sometimes 24"). Unless it's a mighty steep roof, 12" doesn't seem wide enough to me. 12" - 1" (two 0.5" hems) - 1.5"(the two sides of the hump) = 9.5"/2 = 4.75" per side. By the time you show 2"-3" of metal on each side, your roof material is not covering your valley very much.
We use 24" as a minimum and in addition to the W a 1" V break on each edge to be forced down by the valley shingles so water making it over the W in a hard rain can't wash up the other side and under the shingles. In my opinion 12" is not nearly enough, unless you mean 12" up from the valley center. Also the copper is always beded on Ice & Water Shield going 1' past the copper edge.
Never serious, but always right.
I use 20" stock with a one inch center raise and a hem so the flat is 8.5"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Anyone ever deal with this product or even heard of it before???
25-something years ago as a fledgeling archy drafter, it was a "standard" detail for high-end houses, at least amongst the experienced architects I was drawing for. I had never seen any installed (nor about half of what I was detailing, either).
First time I ever actually saw any it was a true "w" with two peaks asymetrically sized. (From the centerline, bend up 3/4, then down 1 inch or so.) The asymmetry kept the center of the valley from touching the phyiscal valley of the roof. This was on an all soldered all copper roof next door to the landscape project I was working on--so I didn't get to ask many questions. (More's the pity.)
I need to find some spare time and go drive past that site to see what that roof looks like after almost two decades (and a couple of serious hail storms).
Edited 5/6/2004 10:10 am ET by CapnMac
(From the centerline, bend up 3/4, then down 1 inch or so.) The asymmetry kept the center of the valley from touching the phyiscal valley of the roof.
Can you elaborate on that? The shop I deal with always bends it asymmetrically as you said and I thought they just didn't do a very neat job.
I paid about $35.00 a section three years ago from a roofing supply company in Schenectady, N.Y. for 10' w section valley flashing. The company is Quality roofing supply 518-393-1448 . They can fabricate most anything needed and it did not take long to get what I needed.
I too bent my own, or should I say, I had it bent because for far less than the cost of the prebent stuff I was able to get copper that was twice as thick cut and bent..
I used a one inch ridge in the middle.. but then I used hand split ceadr chakes and they are much thicker than a normal cedar shingle so it doesn't look wrong..
Hey Andy -
post pics of your copper valley!
I'm having trouble visualizing this thread.
remodeler
The way my roofer does the W is at the top ends he folds them over and then he makes his own clips out of copper maybe 3" long and raps them around to interlock with the top fold and taps them down and at the other end he nails the clip to the sheathing with a copper nail so that holds the W down with no nails in the copper valley.
Joe Carola
Joe
I planned on just using copper roofing nails along the edges outside the flashing catching the edge of the nail heads on the flashing.
I figure the shingles set ontop will also hold it now.
I fabricated mine with a 3/4" center rise and 1" returns along the edges
BE well
andyMy life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM