I posted a while ago about purchasing and using sketchup. I have found it to be awesome for the purpose I bought it for.
I think I have gotten a few jobs that I otherwise wouldn’t have gotten without it.
Now that I have used it for a few months a couple of things have come to mind. Initially, I had thought I could charge for modeling proposed additions, and I think that will be the case. It will certainly be factored into the jobs that I get.
I had recently been approached by a number of customers with projects that would benefit from the modeling exercise, and had mentioned to them that I would perform this service at a set fee. As I’m writing this I’m thinking that it fits nicely into the “holy grail” that is known in these parts a paid estimate.
One problem. I have a couple of estimates in the works that I am doing drawings for that I am not specifically getting paid for, and there is a chance that I won’t get the job. So my question is, how do I protect them or discourage others from using them?
Currently, I import a gif of my logo and plaster it prominently on the drawing, but that will only discourage their use at best. I’m thinking of noting on the drawings something of to the effect of “Copyright 2003 drawings may be used with the express written permission and payment of design fee to …..”
In the future I will not provide drawings without payment, but I’m wondering if there is a standard way of handling this arrangement.
Let me see if I can post a sketchup drawing. This is a rather simple project, but it is a significantly different approach from the other two contractors that looked at the job, and there are two other porches I sketched on the other side of the house. I really would like to discourage the HO from shopping my designs around without paying for them.
Thanks, Tom
Tom
I’m here to help the humans.
Replies
If I read this right, it sounds as though you're bidding on work where there are no plans and specs and you're using the models to better relay your ideas. I think you're right in worrying about shopping your design around: they got a free design and can see if the next guy can do it cheaper.
I'd suggest submitting your estimate (without design) in a nice folder or binder and include some good quality images either from previous work or your practice models. You might explain that part of the proposal will be a model up front for their review (once they've signed on). This will give you all a chance to modify the design and/or estimate before construction starts. The images submitted with the estimate will immediately give you a leg up and by conveying your ideas before you start construction you avoid the old "Hmmm... I didn't quite imagine that" comment.
We use sketchup here as well and it is an awesome tool. There is no comparison between a good 3D model and even the nicest 2D renderings.
As an architect, I'll restrain from the comments about de-zine on your own and (even worse) de-zining for free.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply Jim,
For the record, I prefer to work with an architect on any project. I bring this up at the first meeting on any major remodel. Unfortunately, if don't have an architect already, they're predisposed to thinking they don't need one, or the cost of one.
I have only come across a handful of clients in 15 years who had the foresite to pay for professional design prior to my meeting with them. I have a designer I work with who does the cad work for most of my projects. I use sketchup more for a visual aid, and to get the project to where it can be bid, prior to incurring design/cad fees. As a bonus, I take the models to the designer, and he doesn't have to spend nearly as much time reworking the drawings. He doesn't have sketchup yet although I've tried to convince him of its utility.
I haven't found an architect yet thats interested in lets say ,50k budgets, so what's a guy to do?Tom
I'm here to help the humans.
I hear ya. Architects are always talk about how even the smallest project will benefit from their presence but try to get one on a porch addition. That's why I like architecture, not architects.
Keep on keeping on!
My brother is an intellectual property lawyer. Your drawings can be copyrighted, which would prevent anyone else from making a copy of them. You can also copyright a design, so, for example, no one can build what you design without your permission.
The copyright protection for architectural works came about because contractors would, for example, walk through a new home, memorize the layout, then go back and build homes identical or nearly identical to it. In effect, they were getting the "services" of a professional designer without paying for them. So, it's against the law to build to a copyrighted design, whether you copy the actual drawings, or work from a plan catalog, or even just work from memory from a home you've seen.
If designing a home well were easy, there wouldn't be so many ugly, dysfunctional, leaking, McMansion, hideous, disposable homes in America. So professionals are worth their salt and deserve to get paid for their knowledge just like a lumberman for his lumber.
I mean this gently, but it's going to come out harshly. Just like your clients would get worthwhile advice from you on design, you would get good advice on protection from an attorney. I'd recommend contacting an intellectual property attorney, with some familiarity with architecture, and getting his advice, so everything can be set up just so. They are also really good at the practical aspects, too, like other techniques to make things run smoothly without resorting to the law. I've never regretted spending the $100-200 bucks for professional advice, because it's helped me out a lot whenever I have.
Tom, I agree with Jim about keeping your design until later. Advice should never free and you will run into that client who is just fishing for ideas to later DIY your idea. Give them your examples of what you can do and I think you will still get that market niche. Might I ask how long the example porch drawing took with sketchup? I lean towards hand sketches of the design before I am hired because I may be just as fast and I like the style and skill it shows, but lets be honest, some clients don't need or respond to it.
I would be that guy you are looking for, for the pro services for under 50k projects but only if your in central Illinois. Look for kids coming out of Architecture schools, with a contractor for a brother, and a passion for residential, you might have chance.
I also am looking into the copyrighting process so I would be very interested in what you might find.
dps
dps,
Like I said, I am somewhat new to sketchup, so I am a bit slow. I also did three different versions of this project, and the house is to scale, windows and textures, approximate. I probably drew the this porch on the house in 15 minutes.
I have little in the way of artistic abilities so as much as I would like to I don't do a whole lot of sketches in front of the customer. I have taken the laptop out and made changes on the fly and did interior walk throughs complete with furnishings and interior textures. A really valuable tool. I do envision drawing on the fly in front of customers at some point.
If you have the artistic ability, it may be a waste of time. But if you consider the level of detail, and the ability to make changes, minor or major without redoing the whole drawing in may make sense. One of the display modes in sketchup approximates pen and ink hand sketching, which is probably as far as you need to go for conceptual drawings.
One of the neat things about sketchup is there are any number of ways to accomplish the same result, so even after watching the tutorials, there's plenty of room for experimentation. They have a great user forum, where people from the company actually answer questions in a very timely fashion.Tom
I'm here to help the humans.
Tom,
One design does not make or break you (I hope). The best thing to do in the future is I believe what I do. I don’t draw or design anything unless I’m compensated for it. . . period.
I give good guestimates on work and if they like the numbers they can then pay me for the design work. When the design work is done they own it. They can retain me to do the work and if not I won’t care what they did with it after that. View Image
Same here. I have a $500 deposit and design agreement at hourly rate before I start working on it.
I provide 3D renderings but no true scale plans until I am paid in full for the design.
By that time, I know whether or not I want to work with them for the construction phase. It has been good for me to separate the design and const phases. I cancelled one customer who proved to be a twit during design.
Another customer postponed the job after getting the estimate.
Most go for it..
Excellence is its own reward!
>So my question is, how do I protect them or discourage others from using them?
I think about this, too. It's a real concern. I regularly get asked to send along this floorplan or that one. (Yeah, sure, and the stamped engineering, too?) All that helps me is that our little dome community is small enough that I'd probably hear if one was being built and easily recognize it.
"Copyright 2003 drawings may be used with the express written permission and payment of design fee to ....."
Thats exactly how you copyright something. I would also put the little c in a circle next to it.
Proving they used your design in a court of law is another thing. Probably not worth the trouble of going to court unless its a million dollar project.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
The problem with trying to enforce copyrights is that it can be an expensive hassle with no guarantee of success. My mom is a professional photographer who has had her photographs ripped off and has been told by lawyers that she would never collect enough to pay for the legal expenses. She would normally expect to get from a few hundred to around a thousand dollars for a non-exclusive one time use for a limited run book or a single photo in a limited circulation magazine. If you think copyrights are a deterent, you haven't been following the RIAA's adventures in suing 10 year olds for copying copyrighted music via Kazaa...
One way to limit the amount of copying of your design would be to not let them have printed copies. Show them the designs via your laptop screen or have a print out in a binder which you keep. It could possibly generate a few awkward moments when it become clear that you really don't trust them with the drawings, but that's when you could offer them copies for a fee. It would probably cost you something in time to sit down and show them the renderings rather than handing them a print out to study at their leisure, but few things in life are totally free...
Has she talked to an "intellical property" attorney's?
All work artistic work is "automatically" copyrighted when you create it. You don't need to put anything on it. But putting a notice on it at least gives notice to those that don't understand that fact.
HOWEVER, there is a 2nd stage, if you Register the copyright then you can get statutory damanages and I think attorney's fees.
There is a small cost for the registration and there is some process where they can register multiple items at one time.
I don't think that is worth it for the type of plans that we are talking about.
But for plans in a plans books and for someone licensing stock photo they really need to check into that.
You can get all of the basic info here;
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/
Yes, she talked to a lawyer who (supposedly) knew copyright. That is the lawyer that told her even though she had copyright and a good case, she would never collect enough money to make it worth her time and aggrevation. Being right and being profitable are two different items...
Okay, say you sell the client your design and they end up getting someone else to build it. How do you handle the liability issues if this other builder doesn't construct it in the manner you had intended but didn't detail?
We've delt with that problem before, but thankfully not for quite some time. Our proposals are typically for full services (schematic - con admin). We include in every proposal a very clear, very direct clause that, exept for negligence, claims against us are waived should our drawings be used for construction without our permission.