I’m in the process of putting in my own kitchen in an old Victorian–shaker style cherry cabinets, and I think I want to go with Corian for countertops. I’m building the cabinets, doing the electrical, plumbing, etc. myself and I want to do the same with the countertops. I don’t care if Dupont won’t warranty the material. Any idea as to someone who will just sell me the material without the labor charge?
Thanks,
Jeff
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Replies
Had the same idea last week. Home Depot was
the only one who would quote me on Corian or
any of the lookalike brands. They said Corian
was $650 for a 30 inch by 12 foot sheet in white.
Colors were higher. They could not get me the
color-matched epoxy, just the sheet. Decided
to reconsider using the stuff. Maybe I'll use
something cheaper and more available, like solid
gold or ivory.
Jeff, what a great name!
I'm a certified solid surface installer. Retailers are not allowed to sell solid surface materials and adheisives to any one who is not certified.
If you really want to try your hand at it, you may be able to find a cabinet shop in your area that will order you some.
There are alot of specific procedures you must know to make the installation last. Such as proper clamping pressure. If you are using a colored material, too much pressure will cause the seam to turn white even with color matched adhesive.
Seam location is very important. A seam location common for other counter tops can be a major no-no.
The manufacturers not only warranty the product but also the installation. This is why they require certification.
My certification must be renewed every two years. At the last
re-cert. class I went to we ran short of adhesive. The instructor sent one of his helpers to get some more. The retailer would not sell it to him because his card was expired by one day.
This stuff is expensive even with out the labor costs. A small mistake can cost some major bucks. I would leave the installation to a pro, but you might be able to find an installer that will work along side you and guide you along. At least then you can say you did it with a helper.
FYI.... "Corian" is not the material, it's a brand. The material is called Solid Surface. There are, I believe, only two manufacturers of solid surface materials. Dupont is not one of them. The only real difference between brands such as Gibralter, Avonite, Pionite, Surell and Corian are the colors they offer.
Have fun, keep your fingers
Jeff
How much does certification cost, and how long does it take? Do the vendors accept each other's certifications?
Uncle Dunc,
The certification course I took is part of the Carpenter's Union training program and takes sixteen hours. The cost to us is covered by our dues. It is recognized by the manufacturers of Gibralter, Surell, Avonite, Corian and Pionite.
For those who are not in the union, a seperate course is required for each one, at a cost that was told to me to be between $400-$600 each.
Have fun
Jeff, UBC Local 803
FYI.... "Corian" is not the material, it's a brand.
Thanks for pointing that out...one of my pet peeves. Goes along with the people who refer to all laminate as "Formica."Insist on the real MadMom - accept no substitutes!
This is the first I've heard of Corian accepting a certification other than their own (unless it's installation only).....for their certification, you have to be specifically recommended by a Corian distributor, and you have to go to Corian school in Penn. or wherever it is....it's more than 16 hours, and it's gonna cost a fair bit to attend, although the course is free. Then they monitor your first few jobs before you get the 'stamp' (and they cover the warranty). That applies to residential; no restrictions on buying the material for a real commercial job (if it's only a few sheets, and it smacks of a residential job, they may ask to see prints), but there is also no warranty from Dupont on commercial work. There are some third party certification courses that theoretically will allow you to buy material from the other brands, but Corian is specifically excluded, and I don't know how the other brands apply that in real life. Many do it case by case on deciding if they are going to let you buy it, depending on the local market and your experience with the product.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
The certification I have is for installation. The card I recieved, with my ugly mug, name, ssn and Qualification# on the front, lists the brands that recognize it on the back. Corian is listed.
As far as purchases go, I'm not 100% about all the regulations as I have not had to buy any.
Edited 5/22/2002 12:48:30 PM ET by CARPENTER345
I don't want to be picky here, but Corian is a material. Yes it is a solid surface (methyl-methacrylate) or something like that if I recall, but it does refer to a specific material. Solid surface is a generic name of a product type that encompasses many of the brands (and others) that have been mentioned, but Corian is in fact a material. Just as Jello is in fact a gelatin dessert, and Wonderboard is a cement based tile backer board, albeit specific variations of each.
To the point, don't waste your time and money messing with solid surface materials of any brand name if you have not been trained. Installing a presized bathroom vanity top is one thing, seaming a piece of Corian is totally different. I have seen some uncertified installations (when the material first became popular) with green goo growing in the seams and hairline cracks next to cooktop cutouts...not worth it!!!
If you want to DIY a countertop, go buy some tile and go to town, at least the mistakes you can fill with grout and try to make it look like you did it on purpose.
IMHO
Bill
I'm startng to think the first 10 hours of the Corian school is when they brainwash you into thinking you are far superior and intelligent than the rest of us out here and that we could not possibly be smart enough to work with this magic material unless we are brainwashed into think this way also........BUNK. The fact is, the could publish how it is to be fabricated and installed in a few pages. But that would make it too easy, and they would have to bring the price back to reality now would'nt it?
I say screw them. Im not selling it for them .
You couldn't be more wrong. Sure it's easy to work with, in fact it is easer to fabricate than laminant on paritcalboard. You can't do a bullnosed edge in the field with laminant.
But as far as you feeling left out or inferior, quit crying! There is no pre test for IQ to get in a class. The class I was in had guys that, at work, only do concrete forming. I'm not ragging on them for what they do, I did it for years. They most likely arn't getting the cert. for work. They want to do side work, or their own kitchen.
The thing is they know how to do it now. No trial and error.
If you want to know how to do it go get certified and you can start your own business and make big bucks.
Believe me, the sixteen hour class I took covered basic install, so we can install units, built-up at a specialty shop, in comercial building. Custom work is a whole different arena. That will take more training and when the classes become available at the Union Training Center, I'll be there........doesn't sound like you will.
One thing for sure, the only brain washing going on is what you, have done to yourself.
Jeff,
UBC Local 803
So let's get a bunch of guys together, everybody kick in a few bucks, draw straws to see who has to go take the class. That guy comes back, orders a truck load of material, makes copies of his class notes, and we divvy it all up.
Actually, for what I have in mind, I'd be happy scrounging scraps from cabinet shops, if I could get the instructions and the glue.
Go Granite or Go Home! Corian is over priced, Last kitchen we did went solid Granite for less then the plastic Corian! Yes the High end market is in the crapper so Granite can be found for the same price as Corian but not a HOME Depot!
I discovered three years ago that real granite is actually less than Solid Surface. I had a customer that thought they couldn't afford granite, we priced them head-to-head, and guess what! Granite was cheaper. It was an eye opener for me. There is an impression that solid surface is the less expensive alternative, and I think the natural stone industry hasn't done a good job of promoting themselves.
But maybe it is a regional thing. Maybe NE Ohio is the exception....or maybe I'm not marking granite up enough.......
John
John Svenson, Builder, Remodeler, NE Ohio (Formerly posted as JRS)
There's a wide range of granite prices. And of course the one I want, Blue Pearl, is fabulously expensive.
Perhaps we will all have to join the stone cutter's union to buy natural materials some day.
Hey, if they can patent seeds, imagine what the lawyers can do with granite.
It shames me to admit it, but on a kitchen back in Feb. I bought all the granite counters installed from Home Depot. I paid for it there, but the guy who came out to measure and install was the same guy, and granite fabrictor that has done the rest of my stone work, only this time I got it at 1/2 price. HD made a commitment to them for 150 jobs in 6 months, so they got the best deal.......then I did to, I just had to by thru Home Destructo. Bastards. Love to hate them.
Stone stains. So does concrete. Solid surface doesn't. You get red wine on white Corian, you use a little Ajax with bleach and it comes right out. The olive oil bottle doesn't make a permanent ring when some excess oil drools down the side. If you have a decorative glass fish bowl full of coral fall off a high cabinet and bust on the counter, you can sand out the gouges and buff out the scratches with a Scotch-Brite pad (a brand name for a non-woven synthetic scouring device.)
Tile doesn't stain, but grout does. OK, not epoxy grout, but still, it's just not as easy to wipe down. A solid smooth thing is appealing for that reason.
A polished granite countertop is perfect for a bachelor penthouse, but for me, a sloppy and vigorous cook, I'm pretty happy with the solid surface counters and kitchen sink that came with my house. It would bug me, too, that I couldn't just get some and work it myself, though, if I was redoing a kitchen. I wanted to use solid surface in my bathroom re-do, but gave up for the anti-do-it-yourself reasons cited in the other posts. Tile and epoxy grout. I don't want to risk a stain. You never know when I might spill red wine in the bathroom ;-)
Back to where to get the stuff, there are other sources besides the big brands. I know an outfit called KitchenStone that makes custom solid surface stuff from the colored granules and solvents and whatever else is in it. Apparently the Dupont patent ran out and anybody can use the formula. They have big trays where they build in edges to the specifications of the individual project, they pour in this stuff, and run it through some kind of vacuuming oven apparatus. They told me it costs $40 per square foot for something like a conference table or a kitchen island. They can make the mold in any shape. They put in sinks and everything -- one piece. (albeit the ones I saw done like that were as tacky as the cultured marble shell-shaped sink vanity tops from Home Depot.) KitchenStone is just a little outfit in South Georgia, but if they're doing it, there must be more like them. Only stands to reason.
B
Not all stone is the same with regards to stain resistance. We have dark granite tile (12x12, minimal (and dark) grout lines - 1/16"). No visible stains after 5 years. My wife is a fairly aggressive cook (i.e., every pan in the house dirty after a meal) and I don't always catch the spills in the first cleanup. No worries about hot pots/dishes either. Given there is no significant cost differential between granite and Corian, we will probably stick with granite in the new place we will be building.
Don
Just a few points...
the price differential between solid surface and granite has definitely dropped, but it was perfectly true that until recently, ss WAS less expensive; not just hype. I'm told it's a lot of cheap Chinese and Brazilian stone flooding the market, but I'm not really in the loop right now (I'm a certified fabricator, BTW, but not a Corian fabricator.....I was considering it strongly, but it wasn't worth the hassle at that time when I could buy any of the other 'premium' acrylics easily). I think you need to compare apples to apples too; last time I compared prices, the granite was comparable to ss for a 3/4" slab (the ss has a 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 built up edge). Thicker slabs, more money.
As far as the material goes, there are acrylics (Corian, Hi-Macs, Avonite, Topstone, etc), and polyesters (Surrell, for one....cheaper, nastier to work with, and can't be thermoformed). There used to be, and maybe still are, a couple of hybrids too, but the acrylics are the premium. Yes, the Corian patent is up, and the other acrylics are just as good....depends if you like their colours. And yes, there are small regional brands all across North America....they usually seem to be polyesters (I was linked to one), but they can do things like match a colour from another brand for a certain minimum quantitiy (only like four sheets or something, with the company I was with).
You can crab about the restrictions on buying the material, but I think they make sense for two reasons: they make sure that the people fabricating it (and a fabricating certification is different from an installation one) have done basic training on the material. I don't think you can learn to do it well from a book; it's not rocket science, but it's definitely one of things where having someone show you the ropes is important. I had done quite a lot of it before I got certified; I learned a great deal from doing the course in a full time fabrication shop.
The other reason is, it limits the number of people doing it in the market (I know, I know....pipe down)....I think that's a good thing in the long run for the consumer, because they end up necessarily dealing with people that are doing a lot of it, are properly trained, and not getting lowballed by people that do it once in a blue moon. I don't think anyone is getting rich in that biz now.....there's too much sleazy politics between the manufacturers, the big boxes, and the fab shops that some of the manufacturers are setting up themselves (in direct competition with the wholesale customers of their products).cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Rant and rave all you want but you only make yourself look bad here pal.
Huh?
Or Romex, or Kleenex...
Some fear that without brainwashing the economy will grind to a halt.
corian is not easy to work if you don't have the right equipment .you will be much better off calling a professional save money on the cabinets but don't scrimp on the countertops or plumbing
Hey Jeff; Does it make you wonder why you don't want concreter for counters? If you are a good finisher it seems a pretty good alternative to me. Those Cherry cabinets built for a heavy load? I think I am going to end up with Granite Tiles. Hard, Shiny and only one at a time. Good luck whatever you do.
DAN
If you want the look of granite, buy granite. It's cheaper than the plastic imitation that now cost more than the real deal.