Hi everyone,
This is my first time posting to breaktime, so if this is a perennial topic, forgive me.
I’m doing my first trim work ever on painted trim. All my previous experience has been with wood.
How would a pro go about it? Is it best to paint the trim before even cutting it and installing it? Is it better to install it first, then mask and paint?
The walls are already painted, although we figure we’ll have to do some touch up.
What is the best approach to filling the holes the nailer leaves? Is there matching putty available, or do you just fill and then touch up afterward?
Is it usually a better idea to paint the walls first, or should we have waited until after I put the trim in?
Any good books on the subject? The trim carpentry books I have don’t have any specifics on this area, strangely enough.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Doug
Woodbury, MN
Replies
Easiest way for me is to finish- paint the trim first, then cut and install, then fill the holes, then just 'face-paint' the trim again (you don't have to coat all the way to the edges). This way you won't have to touch-up the walls.
Edited 4/18/2004 9:16 pm ET by TR
At a minimum, apply a coat of primer before cutting. I try to get on the first coat of color also. That way when I cope the inside corners there is a nice line to follow. Paint the walls first...you have a little room to play and don't have to cut in the wall color, so it goes faster. I fill the nail holes with the same caulk I use to caulk the trim to the wall, then apply the final color coat, cutting in carefully. Other here will disagree, of course, but what do they know? I do manage to get the trim joints tight, and get the trim tight to the wall, so the caulk is just for the nail holes and to cover the little gap at the trim-wall intersection. Caulk is absolutely not an excuse for sloppy work.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Ed, you state that you get the trim tight to the wall, so why do you need to caulk it there? If you're using painters caulk for that it will crack later. Just thought I'd be the first to disagree, beings you asked for it.
Edited 4/18/2004 10:30 pm ET by TR
I caulk cuz I like the trim to look like it's part of the wall...extruded, I think someone said once. Doesn't take much caulk, just a real thin bead and smear it smooth. That sure sounds tacky, doesn't it?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Just messin' with ya', Ed. I know what you're saying, sounds good.
Caulk isn't the best thing for nail holes because it shrinks back a little bit, and doesn't sand well. Non-shrink drywall spackle (the really lightweight stuff) or wood filler does a better job. You have to touch the spots with a bit of primer though so the patch doesn't soak up the final paint coat differently and stand out.
Good points, I usually use 'famowood' wood filler, or window glazing also works good.
Unsanded tile grout works great as a nail and crack filler. Dries hard and sands smooth, defects disappear.
Sounds good, I'll give it a try. Does everybody around here actually sand all the holes? I got filler in one hand and a sponge in the other, it sure saves time.
I sand all the bad spots before I give it the final coat of paint. I always see the places where I just wiped off the filler with a sponge - and the way SWMBO carries on, you would think the bad spots are flashing red neon. - lol
And a vote for doing nothing until it's on the wall. I am not at all a fan of prefinishing anything, though the idea of priming first, so you can see the cope . . . that ain't all bad. But you're gonna gum the heck out of your sandpaper everywhere you smooth a joint or smooth a board that had errant mill marks in it. Spackle fills holes easy and sands likewise. I also like keeping auto body glazing around. It does shrink some, but it dries fast. For brad holes one coat covers, for bigger holes like a trim screw hit them twice. It fairs out well and to me anyway is more invisible than spackle. Also useful for making scarfs go away, along with any other hairlines.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Mill marks I would sand before painting, I don't sand after filling the nail holes, use famowood and a slightly damp sponge, - done and ready for final face-coat. Body filler is good for high end jobs and when there's excessive natural light in the room, but of course, more time consuming. I think he's asking more on the line of efficiency.
For me, anything to avoid even more bending work is good. I would much rather paint and sand long lengths of molding on sawhorses or a bench than mess with it up high or down low. Also, putting down a coat of primer shows any milling marks much easier. I sand after priming, also, which makes a much nicer finish. Tack off, then first coat, then install, then fill, then final coat.
Hope this helps. Rich.
Don't use caulk for the nail holes. I actually had a guy complain that it shrunk and he could see all the nail dimples. It did actually shrink some, but he was also a perfectionist. The dimples were miniscule. Anyway, had I used spackle, it would have taken just as long as caulk and wouldn't have shrunk as much. Easier to sand out, too, if ever necessary.
Pete Duffy, Handyman
i don't finish coat the walls until after the trim is up, so that if anything gouges the wall (yeah, pretend you don't do it on occasion) you can spackle and prime again without it being an obvious repair, but if you have to touch up anyway, you might as well cut in the walls to the base, here's the order....
sand out/fill imperfections, prime & one coat finish on trim (one coat finish so you don't have to drag your brush in the dirt and spackle dust on the floor, and you're gonna two coat anyway, so why bend over more than needed?)
put up trim
putty nail holes (caulk shrinks too much), carrying rag with you to buff putty flush. putty before caulk so as not to accidentally bump clean caulk lines
caulk wall to trim joint
2nd coat finish on trim, intentionally lapping up the wall so you can cut the wall into the trim
cut wall into trim.
you could alway ask that lady that painted all her boyfriend oak, white last week. if you could find her.
I definitely don't 'gouge' the wall enough to go thru all that every time. But, hey, if that system works for you, 'yee-hah'! Just seems like if you were going to overlap anything, it would be the other way around, rather than covering 'semi' with flat or satin. Opph - sorry, there I go again. I'm near Trenton, what 'Jersey shore' you at? I have to go measure up for a friend's deck tomorrow at LBI (Harvey Cedars). Maybe I can come 'inspect' your paint job (and you can drop a board on my head). LOL
question me, but never question the program. the program is sound. i don't make a habit of gouging the wall, in fact, i don't know why i even tossed that in there. it's actually just plain easier to finger a bead on a slightly slick primer coat than on a flat wall paint.
i'm in tuckerton (across the bay from beach haven), but i work from toms river down to stone harbor, and regrettably, occasionally inland. just bought a new (to me) boat too. mmmmm, teak.
since i only prime the walls first, and apply two coats of finish on the walls, there is no issue with the coverage over the semi-gloss trim paint. i just find it exponentially quicker, easier, and a better finish product, to cut the walls to the trim. running a brush on a flat surface to get a crisp line is hella easier than running on the thin edge of whatever style trim you're using.
oh yeah, and no tape. ever. on anything. it is the refuge of the scoundrel. outright admission that you have "no hand". unless you're spraying, of course.
Sounds like my system is exactly like yours, just the 'Bizarro' version. LOL. And 'Yay' to the 'Nay' on taping.
trimnailer37 dose have it nailed, i spray so tape goes everywhere, but we always spray the trim first.
james