Putting up a house in NH and have had many issues with contractors agreeing to sheetrock the ceiling (about 1000 sq ft) and then giving up. The ceiling is vaulted?? rising from 11 feet above the floor at the walls to 23 feet in the center. I have had a contractor put up two rows of 4×12 1/2 inch sheetrock and then state that they needed more equipment and help (paid him what I believe is a fair amount) and suggested that I find another contractor. The next contractor came out – Set up his equipment and then left (did not pay anything) after prep. (Note that I have successfully had many other contractors complete items – the roof- the HVAC ducting etc).
I now realize that I need to make sure that the contractor has the equipment and experience to put up the sheetrock at height. I am now looking for how each contractor will work and number of helpers, equipment – etc to make sure that they have thought out the job.
Now my problem – I want to make sure that I am not getting low balled again as this is becoming old real fast. I have been told that just hanging the sheetrock should cost about $1/sqft with an additional premium for setting up to the high ceiling. Does this seem correct?
Replies
Porsche, Are you including the walls and easy ceilings in the contract?
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You might want to change your moniker to VW and you'll get a better price.<g>
Just that ceiling - everything else has been completed
Now that's strange. They guy that bolted is the one that took care of the rest? Amazing. I would say the buck a foot plus a bunch of several hundred for the pleasure would seem about right unless you find someone that owes you a favor. Do you have it staged now? Sounds like you need several stand around bodies to get the board up there. You have a picture of this "room"?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
To further explain - the guy that bolted had other problems- divorce papers served etc. that were a distraction. The ceiling in question is all in one room and open. The staging is set up in there. I think one of the posters has it correct - if a drywaller needs to or three helpers and some staging to work from the scaffolding. THe peak is difficult because tow sections of 6' scaffolding bring you to 16 feet but with the peak at 23-24 feet - many get uncomfortable with a 7+ foot stretch while putting up a sheet - my thoughts.
A 4 man crew being provided at $150/hr is a bargan rate. You think they can have it done in 4 hours or less? How far from Exeter?
Just west of Sunapee
I'd say it was a fair price. You have all the easy parts done so you will be paying what seems like a very high sq ft price because every single sheet will take extra time. I wouldn't begin to touch a job like that for a buck a foot. sounds like a lot of hours just moving scaffolding unless it's all one room.
Pricing on this board changes drastically with local.
Seems you hired a bunch of whimps. In fact the first one cheated you.
Sure there will be four sets stacked of rolling scaffolds and some plank changing but its just work.
If the joices are 16 inches on center you need 1/2 inch ceiling board not regular 1/2 inch rock.
If you have 2 ft centers you will need 5/8s fire code.
Job could be done with 3 hangers with 8 ft board stock. Job would be tough using 12s. Id walk on that.
First hanger should have never been paid till done but you know that now.
Since Im not there , I estimate between 4 to 8 hrs for 3 people @ 1000 sq ft in one big room . Only one set up of scaffolds at a time building them as hight increases. 40.00 x 8 hrs=320.00 x 3 = 960.00 would be my bid charge for what thats worth .
Id probably want the finishing on the whole job. A finisher could probably get the job done for you since hes got that work. Most of the time the finishers uses who he wants so in essence hes really selling the hanger the job. Hangers have been known to stay on good relationships with tapers. <G> Even if the GC hires the hangers and pays them, changes can be made by the taper if hes not happy . The GC is only interrested in the end product so the taper rules over hangers just like the painters can rule over tapers. Thats how that works.
Tim
Thanks for the info.
I'm out in expensive San Francisco and would typically bid $2.25 to $2.50 for finished Level 5 sheetrock. So $1.00 to hang somewhere a little cheaper doesn't seem so bad, plus a little extra for the height, which is extreme.
However our code require 5/8" on all ceilings regardless of joist spacing, so make sure your local codes allow 1/2" on the lid.
I wonder if you could do it with a sissors lift.. 2+3=7
How much less for a level 3 out of curiosity.
DA question here... What's level 5?
From:
rasconc <!----><!---->
1/24/2005 5:23 pm
To:
EricPaulson <!----><!---->
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Levels of Drywall Finish
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Level 0
No taping, finishing, or accessories required.
This level of finish may be useful in temporary construction or whenever the final decoration has not been determined.
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Level 1
All joints and interior angles shall have tape set in joint compound. Surface shall be free of excess joint compound. Tool marks and ridges are acceptable.
Frequently specified in plenum areas above ceilings, in attics, in areas where the assembly would generally be concealed or in building service corridors, and other areas not normally open to public view. Accessories optional at specifier discretion in corridors and other areas with pedestrian traffic.
Some degree of sound and smoke control is provided; in some geographic areas this level is referred to as ãfire taping.ä Where a fire-resistance rating is required for the gypsum board assembly, details of construction shall be in accordance with reports of fire tests of assemblies that have met the fire-rating requirement. Tape and fastener heads need not be covered with joint compound.
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Level 2
All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and wiped with a joint knife leaving a thin coating of joint compound over all joints and interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with a coat of joint compound. Surface shall be free of excess joint compound tool marks and ridges are acceptable. Joint compound applied over the body of the tape at the time of tape embedment shall be considered a separate coat of joint compound and shall satisfy the conditions of this level.
Specified where water-resistant gypsum backing board (ASTM C 630) is used as a substrate for tile; may be specified in garages, warehouse storage, or other similar areas where surface appearance is not of primary concern.
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Level 3
All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and one additional coat of joint compound applied over all joints and interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with two separate coats of joint compound. All joint compound shall be covered with two separate coats of joint compound. All joint compound shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges. NOTE: It is recommended that the prepared surface be coated with a drywall primer prior to the application of final finishes. (See painting/ wall covering specification in this regard.)
Typically specified in appearance areas which are to receive heavy- or medium texture (spray or hand applied) finishes before final painting, or where heavy grade wall coverings are to be applied as the final decoration. This level of finish is not recommended where smooth painted surfaces or light to medium wall coverings are specified.
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Level 4
All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and two separate coats of joint compound applied over all flat joints and one separate coat of joint compound applied over interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with three separate coats of joint compound. All joint compound shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges. NOTE: It is recommended that the prepared surface be coated with a drywall primer prior to the application of final finishes. (See painting/ wall covering specification in this regard.)
This level should be specified where flat paints, light textures, or wall coverings are to be applied. In critical lighting areas, flat paints applied over light textures tend to reduce joint photographing. Gloss, semi-gloss and enamel paints are not recommended over this level of finish.
The weight, texture, and sheen level of wall coverings applied over this level of finish should be carefully evaluated. Joints and fasteners must be adequately concealed if the wall covering material is lightweight, contains limited pattern, has a gloss finish, or any combination of these finishes is present. Unbacked vinyl wall coverings are not recommended over this level of finish.
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Level 5
All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and two separate coats of joint compound applied over all flat joints and one separate coat of joint compound applied over interior angles. Fastener heads and accessories shall be covered with three separate coats of joint compound. A thin skim coat of joint compound or a material manufactured especially for this purpose, shall be applied to the entire surface. The surface shall be smooth and fee of tool marks and ridges. NOTE: It is recommended that the prepared surface be coated with a drywall primer prior to the application of finish paint. Se painting specification in this regard.
This level of finish is highly recommended where gloss, semi-gloss, enamel, or nontextured flat paints are specified or where severe lighting conditions occur.
The highest quality finish is the most effective method to provide a uniform surface and minimize the possibility of joint photographing and of fasteners showing through the final decoration.
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Provided courtesy of:
Hard Drywall, Inc. -- P. O. Box 1259 -- Windsor, CA 95492(707) 838-4383
Here's the link
http://harddrywall.com/PAGES/layers.html
For level 3, what do you suppose this means:>All joint compound shall be covered with two separate coats of joint compound.Take that literally, and you'd be mudding forever.
Thanks Huck.
That's wierd, I don't think I've ever seen that.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I'm trying to piece this whole situation together... You said:
>> I have had a contractor put up two rows of 4x12 1/2 inch sheetrock and then state that they needed more equipment and help (paid him what I believe is a fair amount)<< and >> To further explain - the guy that bolted had other problems- divorce papers served etc. that were a distraction. <<
So you have had 2 sheet rockers actually hang board on the job? The first guy left because of personal probs, etc, and the 2nd guy was only there a day or so and hung 2 rows of board? Did you DIY part of this hanging job?
Anyway, if a sub doesn't complete his work on my job by his own decision here is how I figure his pay: price of his bid minus what it costs to get someone else to complete the work minus a management fee. Which could come out to zero or maybe even a negative. Obviously, anyone who walks off the job doesn't get paid until the entire job is done.
BTW - every rocker I have ever hired always hangs the lid first... This whole situation sounds kind of fishy....
Also, I don't under stand your statement >> I want to make sure that I am not getting low balled again as this is becoming old real fast. << Do you mean that you want to be sure you are paying enough such that the work will be completed?
All: are there areas in the country where you would hire one sub to hang and than another sub to finish? That sounds pretty odd to me, and I'd think you could just about expect extra charges because the finisher didn't like the way it was hung...
I'm trying to piece this whole situation together... You said:
>> I have had a contractor put up two rows of 4x12 1/2 inch sheetrock and then state that they needed more equipment and help (paid him what I believe is a fair amount)<< and >> To further explain - the guy that bolted had other problems- divorce papers served etc. that were a distraction. <<
So you have had 2 sheet rockers actually hang board on the job? The first guy left because of personal probs, etc, and the 2nd guy was only there a day or so and hung 2 rows of board? Did you DIY part of this hanging job? The first guy hung the two rows of rock and then left. THe second guy came out to set up and then left after he claimed he needed a lift and a lot of equipment he did not have. Another words if I rented him a lift and provided other equipment - now at about $2 sqft he could do the job. I told hom thank you but no thank you but NO.
Anyway, if a sub doesn't complete his work on my job by his own decision here is how I figure his pay: price of his bid minus what it costs to get someone else to complete the work minus a management fee. Which could come out to zero or maybe even a negative. Obviously, anyone who walks off the job doesn't get paid until the entire job is done.
BTW - every rocker I have ever hired always hangs the lid first... This whole situation sounds kind of fishy....
Also, I don't under stand your statement >> I want to make sure that I am not getting low balled again as this is becoming old real fast. << Do you mean that you want to be sure you are paying enough such that the work will be completed? Yes see above - the first two either didn't have sufficient equipment or time. Talking to others in the area, it appears that depending on relationships, they will browgh from one another such equipment. I now am looking for someone who can do it at a reasonable price (the second one wanted $2 sqft after asking for $1 sq ft initially) and has the equipment and crew.
All: are there areas in the country where you would hire one sub to hang and than another sub to finish? That sounds pretty odd to me, and I'd think you could just about expect extra charges because the finisher didn't like the way it was hung...
I was always told "it aint personel its business"the guy that bolted had other problems- divorce papers served etc.so who cares, I feel for you man, now get you azz up the ladder and finish the job. It was only a two day job. worry about your personel on the weekends.Me, i would not have paid anything, all the rock hang, yes, some of it, all of it finish, then more.. 2+3=7
What happened to the guy who hung the "easy part" of the house? Why did he do part of the house?
How long does it take to hang a house, not finish just hang. I did my 1200 sg ft house by myself in a week after work.. 2+3=7
They usually hang in a day. Usually maybe 4 to 6 guys. This most recient house (2000 sq ft & 10' ceilings) it took them 3 days and I got a bit pissed, but got to execreise some of my diplomacy :-)
How do you hang 12' alone?
Just curious-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WWPD
Re hanging and taping separate, sure, I can hire a hanger, and then separately hire a taper.
And everybody, no matter who, has complaints about the trade that went in before.
I love building wooden scaffolds.
2 years ago I built a 24 deep x 36 wide garage, with the gables on the wide dimension.
Rafters were 2 piece on a triple lvl on each side and another at the ridge. No ceiling beams which would be what we normally work off of.
I was prouder of the scaffold my son and I built than the work we dd.
The carpenter that I apprentised with taught me alot about scaffold building. I have never ever had a failure.
Give me a pile of 2x4's, 2x10's and some 5/4 spruce and I'll build you a custom height scaffold that is safe and sturdy. When ya take it apart you can go build something.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Got any pics?
Thanks for reminding me, that was supposed to be a part of the post I made.
The tragedy of losing the pics in the camera somehow. Actually the camera turned out to be broken. An old Olympus SLR 35mm.
This scaffold was easy. The building was 24ft deep. Three scaffolds front to back, one under each of the midspan lvl girders, and a third directly under the ridge lvl.
The two under the midspan I put cleatts on the walls and two bridges at thirds in between. 2x4's all with cleats and bracing, toss 4, 2x10's up and cover it all with two layers of plywood.
Center scaffold much the same as the other two, I just had to make bridges for the ends as the gables were yet to be constructed.
Sucks too, cause this was one of the only framing jobs that my son worked with me on, and it was January in the NE. He hung in there like a trooper.
Now back to our regular drywall progaramming!
Thanks for asking though.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
$1/SqFt is about what I was quoted to do just walls in a basement some three years ago. This was to hang the sheets, mud and tape. Nothing else. So, if they are charging $1/SqFt in NH today then you have got yourself a good deal, IMO. Then again, Atlanta is contrary to the 'cheaper in the south' notion that got me to move here in the first place.
I would not consider this sub again. They knew exactly what it 'should' have taken in equipment and manpower IF they were an experienced subcontractor in their field. So, either they are inexperienced in their field, or they are inethical in offering bids that are misleading (i.e. lowballers).
Of course, if you were in Georgia you could fire them and then have a lien placed on your property even though its the sub that needs to be leaned on.
We worked on a place that had 12' exterior walls rising to 24' in the center. The drywallers used scissors lifts. 2 guys would haul up a couple of pieces of rock on a rack on the side and then move them into place and secure them. Went very smoothly. On that job I really learned to like scissors lifts, from doing the steel framing to the painting. I did not work on the rock, though.
The OP won't answer my questions.
Here is what happened... He DIYed the easy stuff in the house, and left the extra hard stuff (24' ceiling) for someone else and now can't understand why he can't find a sub to do it for cheap. Wants to bargin with every guy who walks through the door. He said something to the effect of "I don't want to get low-balled again... I think he is a bit confused between the low-ball-er and the low-ball-e
Hey Porche998: I can do it for $12,793 and will guarantee complete satisfaction! Is there a ski slope near by with a pub? I need something to do while my "muchacos" do the job...
I seem to recall the lasy vaulted cieling I was hanging, we started at the top..so where does he think there is shortage of scaffold? I guess the rockers started at the wall?
Much easier to start at the top and work down, IMO.
I have been told that just hanging the sheetrock should cost about $1/sqft with an additional premium for setting up to the high ceiling. Does this seem correct?
Here is New Orleans it cost $4/sqft walls and $6/sqft ceilings to hang, tape, float, finish and texture drywall.
busta :0)