I’m looking over an estimate to replace the glazing in some windows at my folks place in Boston. Contract would be T&M Everything looks some what reasonable except the cost of staging the job.
The house is in the heart of the city and I can understand the bitch of working “here”, the proposed staging would be along the rear of the house 24′ wide by 48′ tall with full walk boards along each level. 4 levels total
My gut reaction is the guy who wrote up the job screwed up, here’s why….
Along with his estimate he provided estimates from his subs/suppliers the scaffold quote came back reading “X dollars for Rear Elevation up to the first floor” “Y dollars for Rear Elevation up to the second floor’ To me it reads it’s x if you want to go up one level, y if you want to go up two levels, not x +Y
Long story short, The total scaffolding cost he has in his estimate comes to $22,885 for; design of the scaffold system, set up, tear down, and one months rent… To me, that sounds like BS. I won’t quote what actually came out of my mouth when I saw it… The total for the quote for “Rear elevation up to the fourth floor is for around 7k, still seems a bit high to me, but at least somewhat reasonable.
So question my is for those of you working in a city enviornment, ballpark me a number of what you might expect to pay.
Edited 7/2/2006 3:48 pm ET by CAGIV
Replies
Twenty-two grand to set-up and tear down 4 layers of staging 3 sections wide??
Man! Get outta da way quick! I'm moving to Boston. (Always did wanna get rich for doing nothin'....)
That's 16 frames plus 24 cross braces plus 4 platforms plus 12 banana clips. Frames are $2/week; X-braces $1/week; platforms $8/week. Banana clips are free. Total rental cost $352 plus 14% sales tax plus $15x2 delivery & pickup. Figger a tad over $400.
I'll set that up with one helper in half a day; tear down in same. Figure another $400-500 for that.
You'll have to adjust those rental rates and my labour rates to reflect the Boston market; I can't do that for ya.
BTW, the height numbers you quoted don't add up: 4 layers of standard 5x5-frame staging is 20' high, not 48'. Is that a typo and if so which number? If not a typo, what kind of frames are they using? I've seen 7' tall 'walk-through' sidewalk frames but I don't remember seeing 10-footers anywhere.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
What he said.
got help???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
got help?Some.
I must be getting old. I used to set up five layers solo and not bitch; now I whine when it's 3 high and I don't have some young buck at ground level to do the schlepping and tie the stuff to the hoisting rope for me....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I meant at those rates do you need help...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
At Boston rates, I could pay yer first-class airfare round-trip, put ya up at the Plaza, hire a limo to shuttle ya to and from the jobsite each day, double your usual hourly rate, and even hire Oreo to fetch the beer and still make a profit.
But ya gotta leave the frog-gigs at home....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
note to self...
leave frog gigs at the house...
what time ya want me there...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Before you get too annoyed, calmly ask the contractor if that's a "real" number. It's possible that someone hit a few wrong buttons on the calculator. If it's supposed to be "real", I would be asking for some serious justification - or get some more bids.
FWIW, a painter buddy was telling me that one reason he doesn't work in San Francisco is the outrageous costs of staging a job. It isn't just the cost of scaffolding, it's also the cost of the permits, safety nets, etc. In some situations, the staging can cost as much as the paint job. - lol
even if it's 7k... i think rent on a sissor lift would be less
p
I'd have to also vote for a snorkle lift. I used one on a job last year; best $1000 for a week I ever spent.
Forrest
All right, good, I was seriously thinking the guy was a complete moron with that figure, or I'm in the wrong business...
I think it was an honest mistake, where someone in the office totaled four proposals where each one already had the previous included.
My first thought was a scissor lift but it wouldn't work the way the rear is set up, a snorkle lift might work but I'm not sure they have space to place it.
I still think the 7k figure is way to high, but I don't really know what scaffold set up and rental for this type of job would cost. I do know I can rent 3 sections for around 200 a month...
The rest of the guy's proposal looked fine, 65/hr for a lead/supervisor 62 for a carpenter, and 48 for a helper, and 15% over cost of sub's and material.
The labor rates on par with what we charge in KS for T&M and we charge cost and 25% for materials and subs
I'll do it for $22,880 even ...
but if their snot nose kid shows up on my site I'm walking!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
you were fired before you even got the job.
I've been in communication with someone re-glazing their windows in the Boston area. His research un-covered two very well regarded outfits that did that type of work. One can be located at windowrepair.com. He had two over ones, and the price was $500 per window. The other is http://www.clearyandson.com and their price is $900 per window. These are major overhauls of the sashes. I'm not sure what is included with regard to the interiors.
Here is the discussion,
http://www.oldhousejournal.com/cgi-local/forum1/index1.pl?read=5217
Frankly, if they can't give you a fixed bid (or a price per window) I wouldn't let them near my windows. It indicates to me that they don't know enough about their business, and are attempting to pass the risk of their lack of knowldege onto the customer.
BTW, if this is literally just reglazing of the windows, no staging is necessary. Remove the sashes and take them to the shop.
Thank you I appreciate the links
A few years ago I worked for a window specialist. We couild do this sort of thing from inside. No staging.
Ron
About 3 months ago there was a big scaffolding setup facing Boston common. I forget the details but in the end a big hunk of scaffolding came down and killed a person in a car. I don't think any workers died.
I'm pretty sketchy on the details but my recollection was that the big out-of-state contractor will probably be ch 11 and have deserved it.
This may have affected scaffolding rates in the liability way.
splat
Three dead in Boston scaffolding collapseBy Glen Johnson, Associated Press Writer | April 3, 2006BOSTON --A 20,000-pound construction platform collapsed and then crashed down 13 stories onto a busy downtown street Monday, killing three people and crushing cars stalled in midday traffic.The collapse occurred about 1:20 p.m. on Boylston Street, which runs along the south side of Boston Common.Witnesses said there was a terrifying rumble then crash of the platform lift system, which was set up atop a second building next to a 14-story building owned by Emerson College. The platform and scaffolding, which had been used to install a stone facade, were being dismantled around the 13th story when the collapse happened, said acting Fire Commissioner Kevin MacCurtain.Boston police identified the dead as the driver of the car, Michael Tsan Ty, 28, of Boston's Roslindale neighborhood; and two construction workers, Robert E. Beane, 41, of Baldwinville; and Romildo Silva, 27, of Somerville.Two other people were taken to Boston Medical Center and Massachusetts General Hospital where are being treated for non-life-threatening injuries.The federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration was called to inspect the remaining scaffolding and assist in the investigation, said Boston Police Superintendent Robert Dunford.John D. Macomber, president and CEO of Macomber Builders, the lead contractor hired by Emerson, said at a news conference the dead were believed to be two construction workers employed by subcontractor Bostonian Masonry and a passer-by.He said the company was still investigating the accident."It looks as though one of the moving, movable scaffoldings fell off the side of the building out toward Boylston Street and down. We don't know why that happened yet. They're tied in laterally very well," Macomber said.He said the procedure was a "typically very safe way to work" and that there was an "extensive safety program inside the company."Macomber Builders has been cited by OSHA more than 10 times since 2004 including more than five citations for "serious" scaffolding or fall protection violations. OSHA defines a violation as serious if "there is substantial probability that death or serious physical harm could result, and the employer knew or should have known of the hazard.""Generally OSHA is very pleased with us and the other leading contractors in Boston," Macomber said at the news conference. "We try very carefully to keep safe jobs. Typically we're held up as a model of safety."He did not comment directly on any of the company's previous violations.Macomber, based in South Boston, has been in business for more than 100 years and helped build Boston's Faneuil Hall Marketplace, according to the company's Web site, which says it has. an employee safety program and a safety director."I had just walked through the spot where it fell when I heard this roar," said Dan Rofsky, 19, an Emerson freshman from New Jersey. "To turn around, after hearing this crash 30 feet away," he added, pausing to collect himself, "I just saw this cloud of dust and smoke."The building -- a dormitory and campus center -- has been under construction for nearly two years, and was scheduled to open for the fall semester, said David Rosen, the school's vice president of public affairs. No students were injured."It's very distressing," Rosen said.Brian Trimmer, assistant manager of Commonwealth Books, said he looked out the store's front window just as an eight- to 10-foot chunk of machinery crashed onto a mid-sized silver Honda that had been headed east on Boylston Street."I saw this large orange thing fall out of the sky on top of a car," Trimmer said. "It flattened it."James Carney, an educational consultant, saw the falling piece of machinery barely miss a white car and crush the Honda in front of it. A cloud of dust rose as a construction worker screamed in pain.On the sidewalk below his office, Carney saw another construction worker, who looked like he had fallen from the scaffolding above, lying motionless. A pedestrian who had been hit by debris wailed in pain.When rescuers moved the piece of machinery off the Honda, Carney saw the lifeless body of a young man dressed in green hospital scrubs."It was ghoulish and awful," said Carney, chairman of Carney, Sandoe & Associates. "It was just a terrible, terrible day."John Hynes was driving his BMW the opposite direction of the Honda, west on Boylston Street, when the platform and scaffolding started to tumble."You could see it coming down and then I started rolling forward. It started to hit my car, and then I sped up," said Hynes, a Boston resident and grandson of the former Boston Mayor John Hynes.The debis damaged the roof of his car and smashed his rear windshield. Hynes, however, was not injured.The collapse occurred on a busy street that borders the Common just around the corner from the city's theater district. The area was crammed with students and passersby.Mayor Thomas M. Menino looked somber after touring the accident site."It's terrible," the mayor said, shaking his head. "People just driving down the street in their cars, construction workers just doing their jobs -- they never knew what hit them."
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