Need to give some prices on interior trim by the piece or lin. foot and was wondering what some of the priceing is out there.Average cost to hang a pre-hung door,case ,base, crown??any help would be greatly appreciated…..I live in upstate New York. thanks…..
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I've always got a kick out of that statment "upstate New York". Where are you talking about, Yonkers, Elmira, Old Forge?
SW, you know Old Forge? How bout Inlet and Eagle Bay?__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I'm doing an addition on Fourth Lake this Spring for a friend of mine. It's a bit of a commute, I live near Boston now, but I couldn't pass up the chance. I love it there. Need some work this Spring?
Scott
SWDD
I was born and lived in a bar/restaurant/hunter boarding house between eagle bay and inlet. Our place was still there and in operation maybe 16 yrs ago. It's been that long since I saw it last. I seem to remember something about white face mountain, can't figure out if that was close or not. Beaver pond a hike up across the road. When we were there you could go to the dump at dusk and watch the bear..........Great place to be brought up, too bad we left at an early age. Email me if you have any information I might be interested in about the area. A little to old to take a drive that long for work, but the offer is tempting. Thanks.
__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Edited 1/29/2003 8:52:35 PM ET by calvin
Yea, I remember going to see the bears up at the Inlet dump when I was a kid. As I got older, the bar up the street past the dump became more popular to me ( the Barn something). What was/is the name of your old establishment and where is it? I've probably been in it; will probably be in it this Spring.
Take care
scott
Scott, for the longest time it was called the Twin Crow Inn. Had a couple of Ravens on top of these poles at each end of the place. I think it was on the right side of the road going to Inlet from Old Forge. When we went through in the mid eighties it was a restaurant again. In 67, a pizza bar. Had a house behind it that housed us and a few boarders during hunting season, and maybe summer. It had a round tube from next to the beer cooler that the empties would be slid down, rolling off to the side on a sand hill under the place. My job would be to go down there in the morning and fill the cases. How bout that White Face Mtn, ring a bell?
thanks__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin
White face is near Plattsgurg if I remember. They had the Olympics there in 1980. Good skiing if you like ice, which is the material I learned on growing up in Syracuse. I would imagine it's about an hour, hour and a half from Inlet. I don't remember your restaurant but I will look for it this Spring.
Scott
Thanks, would appreciate hearing anything back on the old homestead. Don't be a stranger here scott, or you can reach me at http://www.quittintime.com/
thanks again__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
If it's the fourth lake near lake luzerne, then it's about 4 mls. from my house... lol
Did i mention i work cheap? well, not that cheap.. lol
Where is Lake Luzerne? I've never heard of it before. Fourth lake is part of the Chain Lakes that run from Old Forge to Long Lake (I think).
Scott
In the Lake George, Glens Falls area....
Redo-it
NAILMAN411 like SWDD I get a kick out of that expression "upstate New York" too.
I'm in southern NY unless of course your in NYC or Long Island then of course
I'd be from "upstate New York". Upstate seems to run from the northern
end of the Bronx to the Canadian border. Anyway given that you can travel just
a few miles north of where I am in to Dutchess county and the prices will drop
dramatically I think most exchanges of "price" information in these
forums is worthless and in some cases risky.
What you really need is good set of manhour information to get yourself started.
You can then use that to generate your own prices based on the hourly rate
that you want to charge (Have you figured out that yet?). For the materials
part of the equation you should build your own database with your own local
prices. There are a lot of times we get wood from even further upstate then
we are (the Katonah-Bedford area in Westchester county) because it's appreciably
cheaper than around here. If I gave you our prices you might be too high.
That said if you are still looking for a place to start getting pricing (read
Hourly Productivity Information) I would suggest the 2003
National Renovation & Insurance Repair Estimator published by Craftman
Books. Of all the estimating data books that are out there, and I buy them
all, I think this one has the most accurate and useful information for a carpentry
contractor which is what my own company primarily is. Craftman Books publishes
some other estimating data books such as the National Repair & Remodeling
Estimator and the National Construction Estimator but (ignore what those titles
imply) they are not as valuable, accurate, or as useful as the National Renovation & Insurance
Repair Estimator . I noticed the other day that Bob Kovacs who moderates the
JLC Business System forums, while generally disliking data books, does endorse
this book. It also comes with a rudimentary estimating program that you could
also use to get yourself started too.
What I did when I first discovered that particular book years ago was I harvested
all the data out of their program and put it in to my own FileMaker based database
system and used that as the foundation for the estimating cost book we now
use for our projects. We have 4887 line items for finish carpentry and architectural
woodwork alone now to select from so giving you typical costs you can see would
take a little while too.
While that book is a place to start you need to really think "does this
sound right" as you are using it to be safe. That way when you think the
figure you are getting for a particular task is too low (or too high) you'll
think about it and recognize what the figure they gave you really represents.
For
instance
you might say to yourself that the figure they gave for installing that door
sounds "light" and then you will notice that you were thinking of
a completed door installation where their number didn't include the trim or
lockset. Those were separate items. Does that make sense? In fact that's one
of the really good things about the set of data that they do give you in that
particular book. There are like five or six pages of door hardware to choose
from and
you can then mix and match them with different kinds of doors (23 pages).
With any estimating data book you just have to make sure you understand just
what the data figure they gave you actually represents.
You also might want to check out Jim
Tolpins Finish Carpenter's Manual. One of the real good things about
the book is at the end of each chapter he gives some of his own man-hour
figures for the tasks he has just described and there a good foundation to
start from in building your own cost book too if the sheer volume of information
the National
Renovation & Insurance Repair Estimator is too much . It a real good
simple place to start for basic manhour information.
Also check out the new edition of Gary
Katz's Finish Carpentry: Efficient Techniques for Custom Interiors, No
man-hour figures in it but it's full of great technique ideas. I use both
those books as training manuals for new hires regardless of their experience
level just as a starting point to say this is how we like to do things around
here.
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
for what it's worth, we maintain production sheets on every task by categories on a job and key it into an excel spread sheet. The line has a season as well as a phase code (2-digit number), one-letter category within that phase code to show what type of work (say d for door, t for trim), a quantity column, and an hours column. We can tell what size crew does what work so that's not entered. Then for bidding we can use production numbers as opposed to a unit-cost basis for estimating. It sounds like a lot of work, probably 2-3 hours per week. not as bad as it sounds once you get used to it.
remodeler
Jerry-
Whatsa matta? You don't call me any more? lol
Hey- just as a note, I spent three days last week in a Timberline Estimating seminar, and the database blew me away. It was far too detailed for the type of estimating I do (I don't need to know how many nails, studs, etc. are going into the job), but the reporting and formatting put Excel to shame. Of course, not everyone can afford a $6,000 software package- but I remember some guy was working on publishing a FileMaker database program a while back. Seen that character lately????
Bob
That (the FileMaker application) is actually one of the things I've been
at my desk working on this
week. How do you think I happend to have that "4887 line items for finish carpentry
and architectural woodwork" figure in front of me? I came up with a new idea
for how to possibly do rougher ballpark type estimates faster and easier that
I'm trying to work into it. I got the idea when I was creating the little estimate
I used in the post I composed for Overhead
Costs last Friday. Did ya see that
one?
I been reading about and talking
with a friend who used to use Timberline since you told me about those classes.
Doesn't the level of detail and specificity depend on the actual database
set you choose to use with the system?
I'm going over to my brothers tomorrow and then I'll be down working in the
shop on Friday. I'm going to learn to weld again! (I had taken welding back
in college). I'll try calling you again when I'm done there that afternoon.
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
Jerry-
You're scaring me now by talking about welding- stick with wood, bud....lol.
Yes, Timberline, like any database, depends entirely on the item detail that's in the database. You then build assemblies that quantify those line items based on some basic input. I've started collecting models/assemblies from different guys around the country, and they range from "enter length and height of wall" to just give a unit price per SF of drywall partition, to a full-blown conceptual office building model. You gotta see that one- you spend about ten minutes answering questions about the building- GSF, # of floors, structure type, exterior wall, etc., and it spits out a 25 page, 1,000 item estimate down to the last toilet paper dispenser...lol (and the scary part was, it was pretty darn accurate). Some twisted mind spent a lot of time making that happen, but it takes the estimating time from 4 hours to 10 minutes.
I'm pretty free on Friday, so gimme a call.
Bob
---"stick with wood"--- ???
Your telling me that now? But I'm really a painter! That's what I really went to
school for!
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a knock off of St. Sebastion Found by St. Irene by LaTour
a class excercise from from College 1976 SUNY Purchase
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
Nailman: Seems like nobody really gave you a hard number, that's because it is difficult. You need to figure what you need to make per hour then break tasks down, it is not that easy for every thing but gets you close. For example to hang a pre-hung hollowcore door and case it out it takes me from 15 to 30 minutes. I probably average 22mins not super fast not slow. So I use 30 mins as a benchmark so if I need to make say: $26.00/hour then I would charge $13.00 a door. Not a hard and fast rule but gives you an idea. As for base it has so many variables it gets difficult but you can figure an average price. I don't do much piece work anymore mostly bid the job by the square foot, which works for some houses but for a real custom home with milled on site work it doesn't.
As usual, its impossible to get an actal answer to the question you've asked. I've asked most trim carpenters I've met in the last 3 years about prices and NEVER could get any numbers, only reasons why they couldn't and shouldn't. And all you want is a sample and you can decide how much stock to put in it and apply it to your own situation.
Well, straight from the "for what its worth" column, here's a couple of my prices
prehung door w/ casing applied-$40-45, $50 w/o casing app.
plain window casing - $24 for win. under 6', $30 over 6'
for base I estimate my time from a print. A simple bedroom with a 6' closet I would end up at about $45.
This is for what I consider excellent quality work.
Again, for what its worth. Gool Luck
Guys-
It's not that we don't want to give an answer- it's just that the answers, when expressed in dollars, have no relevance. As Jerrald said, better to get a productvity number, and establish a price from there. Reasons:
1. Regional costs vary tremendously. What's poverty level in CA or NJ is royalty status in some areas of rural TX or TN.
2. Even without that, within a region, the contractors' desired income levels vary considerably. Taking Capper's example, if it took 1.5 hours to hang a door, and he's charging $45, that's $30 per hour. Take out overhead, insurance, truck, nails, tools, etc., and that might be $20/hour. Now factor in the time to bid the job, sign a contract, get to the job, collect the check, do the books, etc., and suddenly, that might be $10/hour. Personally, at that rate I'd work at Home Depot, get excellent benefits, and have no headaches.....
3. The market will only bear so much. You may determine that you need to charge $100/hour, like I have, to even consider taking a job. That makes the 1.5 hour door job $150. The builders in your area may be only willing to pay $30, which is unfortunate, but can only happen because some genius who thinks $20 an hour is big bucks (and doesn't even realize it's only $10/hour) will do the work for him. Sad, but true. If you can't make the kind of money you want or need doing what you're doing because of your uninformed competition's rates, maybe it's time to find another clientele.
Hope that clears things up.
Bob