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Could Use Some Helpful Experience Her…

| Posted in General Discussion on June 28, 2001 03:44am

*
For a long time, I have been using one of three types of pilot bit/countersink set ups for driving screws. I have enclosed a photo of all three types. Well, they ALL suck. I need something that can do the job, be quick (time is money), easy to use, and will last. The one on the end is the third one of its kind that I have gotten, and now IT’S broken. The one in the middle slips over your bit in your screw gun, and slips back off to drive the screws. Problem with it is that it gets stuck very easily, and is almost impossible to get off without beating it off with a hammer. Sometimes it gets so loose that it just falls off at the most inappropriate time. The one on the far left is the age old, tried and true pilot bit and countersink. Trouble with this one is the fact that it takes 3 drills to make it have any speed of use at all (1 drill for bit, 1 drill for countersink, and 1 drill for driver bit).

I use screws for framing lumber, 1 x lumber, cabinet work, etc… I do a LOT of work with screws, so I need something that will hold up to my kind of use and abuse. Most of the stuff I have run across is more oriented to the part time woodworker, DIY’er, or homeowner.

If you use something different, and it has been used and abused (and keeps on going), please let me know.

Thanks

James

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Replies

  1. Ross_Welsh | Jun 17, 2001 12:20am | #1

    *
    James:

    I have had good luck with a product called a Jack Rabbit by Giffin Tec Inc., P.O. Box 4057, Boulder, Colorado 80306. (303) 449-9142.

    Their tool slides on and off a hex shaft (it's best to use their brand of hex driver). It's the best drill-countersink tool I have used. It is well made and allows you to work quickly.
    Hope this helps.

    Ross

    1. Greg_Brown | Jun 17, 2001 12:46am | #2

      *James- This is what I use- I take the tapered bit out of the countersink & save it for predrilling very hard wood (maple, hickory) seems the taper does help removing as much material yet allow threads to grab. I don't use the tapered bits for everyday drilling because they dont cut as fast as a split point, they are more prone to breaking , & are more expensive & more difficult to sharpen. These are Fuller brand- except the one with the hex end -which is Dewalt-this one is nice cause your screwgun can grip it much easier than a round bit. Down side is once the bit is broke, toss the hex? countersink on both held in place by alan head set screw.still need two drills set up tho- I set up the countersink in a corded drill-burn those holes in, baby!sorry I was so long winded

      1. Luka_ | Jun 17, 2001 12:54am | #3

        *Greg beat me to it.I love these things !!!

        1. Ralph_Wicklund | Jun 17, 2001 05:40am | #4

          *James, I too use a lot of screws, but unless there is an appearance factor or a particularly hard wood splitting factor, then the whole countersink thing is a waste of time. Because I (we) like projects to draw up tight I will drill a clearance hole in most of my screwed projects but not bother with a pilot or counter sink. The screw will countersink itself and the meat of the base piece will most often preclude splitting. And, the pilot attached to most countersinks is often way too short to be of any real use, while the clearance portion of the countersink is always too short, so you end up using two separate drills AND the countersink point. You'd really need a stable full of different countersink drills to accomodate all the different thicknesses found in even a simple project, which means multiple bit changes anyway you look at it.One of the neatest drills to use for countersink work in less bulky material is the drill used for pocket holes. Just because it has a flat bottom doesn't mean it can't be used with chamfered screws. Also, since the real pocket hole screws have a self-drilling point and a non-chamfered head, splitting is for all practical purposes nonexistent and you can drill closer to the opposite edge of the wood without having the screws pull through the work.

          1. L._Siders | Jun 17, 2001 08:33am | #5

            *I use 2 drill-drivers. Saves time but a little pricy.

          2. GACC_DAllas | Jun 17, 2001 05:13pm | #6

            *Hey James,I use that DeWalt system like your #3 in the picture. However, I gave it to one of the guys so I don't have it anymore. I never broke it though. What breaks?I keep two drills charged up at the shop, but sometimes could use three.We use that changable system with tapcons, you know the one with the sleave that goes over the bit and holds the phillips tip. That's great for two steps, but I haven't seen anything that has all three.I don't usually countersink screws in rough material. they seem to countersink themselves if over 1 1/4" long with course threads. I do countersink them in fine finish material if they are going to be exposed in some manner. But that doewn't happen too often. I have an adjustable depth countersink that a friend gave me years ago. It works great, but I've never seen another one like it. You still have to chuck it up though. Thank God for the keyless chuck.Ed.

          3. SamD_ | Jun 17, 2001 07:36pm | #7

            *James, Like Luka and Greg, I use the Dewalt tapered drill/countersinks. Typically, I've got two cordless drills I use; one with the drill bit and the other with whatever bit needed to drive the screws. BTW: the drill portion of the bits IS replaceable; Tool Crib sells 'em. Sam

          4. Greg_Brown | Jun 17, 2001 07:56pm | #8

            *sam- how do you get the bit shaft out of the holder?

          5. Jason | Jun 17, 2001 08:42pm | #9

            *For rough work, I use McFeely's "self-drilling" screws, which seem to work pretty well in non-hardwoods. They have little teeth on the underside of the head to dig into the wood and countersink themselves. For everything else, I either use two drills, or I use the DeWalt setup others talk about. Sorry, hope this helps.

          6. SamD_ | Jun 17, 2001 09:22pm | #10

            *Greg, Sorry about that; after reading your post again I realized you were saying that the hex shank wasn't removable from the drill itself. The hex shank and bit are two different pieces, the drill is a press fit into the shank (I happen to know this because one of mine separated). TCN does sell the drill/shank though, so you're not faced with buying the entire works (drill and c'sink). Sam

          7. James_DuHamel | Jun 18, 2001 04:57am | #11

            *Hey Ed,The part that usually breaks is the sleeve (brass) that slides up to lock, and down to unlock. It is a pretty rinky dink little sleeve, and it just gives up the ghost. Another breaking point is the aluminum housing where the set screw sits. It gets a crack, and the set screw won't tighten up anymore. ANOTHER problem is the piece that holds the bit/driver has a groove in it. The sleeve actually slips over this groove, and holds the bit/driver in place. The edges of the groove get worn pretty easily and the sleeve will no longer hold it in place.James

          8. James_DuHamel | Jun 18, 2001 05:00am | #12

            *Thanks for all the info.I would really like to find a quick change device that will allow me to use only one drill. On top of a ladder, 24' in the air, I really don't want to have to carry two drill with me.I have used the self drilling screws from McFeely's, but they are expensive. I drive about 1500 screws a month, on average. Thanks for the help and the info.James DuHamel

          9. Mark_McDonnell | Jun 18, 2001 05:29am | #13

            *James,Just got back from a long get-go.I use 3 drills 1st for pilot2nd for countersink, I use those cheap spade type bits made by black&decker.3rd for driving the screws.....after 22 years...bulky, but works the best.Luck

          10. GACC_DAllas | Jun 18, 2001 05:53am | #14

            *James,What about the Insta-bit systems. Do they have a countersink? Or could you retrofit one?I'm trying to figure out a self drilling pop rivet. Sounds like a great idea if anyone is interested.Ed.

          11. Mongo_ | Jun 18, 2001 07:05am | #15

            *My first set from Dewalt snapped. Got two more courtesy sets from them through the mail and haven;t had any problems since. If you got your Dewalt set within the first year that they came out, they've improved it since then...acoording to Dewalt. I think Makita has a set almost identical to Dewalt but I haven't used theirs.I do find that when I flip the bit to drive that sometimes the drill bit doesn't fully bury itself in the unit and I can't lock it in. It still drives, but normally I'm flipping the darn thing back and forth so much that it really doesn't make a difference.What the heck you doing worried about driver sets...I thought you'd be more interested in SCUBA gear with all that rain.Take care...

          12. Bill_Brennen | Jun 18, 2001 08:20am | #16

            *James,You really ought to try the Jackrabbit mentioned in your first reply. It is all the goodness of the Fuller countersink bits but you only need one drill. It drills fast and clean, lasts long, stays on the bit until you release the locking collar, and I even use mine for freehand pocket holes in site work. Nothing else even comes close to its quality, in my opinion. You only need one drill.Bill

          13. James_DuHamel | Jun 19, 2001 01:49am | #17

            *I've never heard of a Jack Rabbit set up before. When I tried to go to the website (www.jackrabbit.com) I wound up in some wierd place that wanted me to verify all the info for my new website. Had all kinds of helpful hints for making my website spectacular. I don't have a website.Where can I find out more about this Jack Rabbit. Sounds interesting.James

          14. blue_eyed_devil_ | Jun 19, 2001 04:04am | #18

            *James, I've used a simple, one piece, spade type "pilot hole/through hole/drill/chamfer for soft woods. It will work for semi hard wood, but really it's only good for pine. The concept is perfect however.If I was you, and was drilling 1500 per month, I'd probably mill down a 1/2" high speed steel bit to do all three operations in one pass: the chamfer, the through hole, and the pilot hole. You probably could grind this yourself, if you have a decent grinder, but you also might simply ask a tool and die maker friend of yours to whip you one up at work. I've gotten a few things like this made and usually the shop guys are glad to accomodate a request like this for the sheer novelty of doing it.blue

          15. Ross_Welsh | Jun 19, 2001 04:43am | #19

            *James:The web address I posted for the Jack Rabbit obviously did not work, my apoligies. I ammended the original post and gave the following: Giffin Tec Inc., P.O. Box 4057, Boulder, Colorado 80308. (303) 449-9142.I'm glad to see that Bill likes it too. It really is very quick, simple and well made. Sorry for the bum steer earlier. You can order over the phone.Ross

          16. Bill_Hartmann | Jun 19, 2001 05:22am | #20

            *It is http://www.jackrabbittool.com/

          17. Luka_ | Jun 19, 2001 05:51am | #21

            *The dewalt bits are meant to be used in the quick change holder. They are held very securely, and the thing doesn't tend to strip out like those cheesy things do.You can change the bit with one hand. Screwdriver bits with exactly the same shank on them as these bits are available anywhere the regular ones are. They are really cheap at Hardwicks in Seattle.

          18. xJohn_Sprung | Jun 20, 2001 12:11am | #22

            *How about this:Drill with an ordinary bit. Countersink by hand, using a simple "T" handle on a countersink. Screw with a screw gun.Countersinking takes the least energy of the three steps. I have somewhere some old countersinks for use with a brace and bit, something like 8-12 flutes. My father made a "T" handle for those tapered square shanks by screwing two pieces of aluminum together. Unless the screws are very large, it should be possible to countersink in soft woods with maybe a couple turns of the wrist. Worth a try?-- J.S.

          19. James_DuHamel | Jun 20, 2001 06:36am | #23

            *I use about 1500 screws a month (sometimes WAY more). To countersink by hand would not be a very effective method, but I do know it produces good results. Thanks for the info.James

          20. RichMast_ | Jun 28, 2001 03:44am | #24

            *James, I like the Insty-Bit brand combined drill-countersinks the best. They were a little pricey when I first got them a while back, but have the best quality I've found. For a holder, the Insty-Bit one is the most rugged and smooth of the 4 or 5 brands I've tried. I recently received a Bosch holder as a courtesy item from Bosch as an apology for some delivery problems they were having, and it is quite smooth - actually only takes one hand to change bits, which is a nice thing while working on a ladder.My 2 cents. Hope this helps. Rich.

  2. James_DuHamel | Jun 28, 2001 03:44am | #25

    *
    For a long time, I have been using one of three types of pilot bit/countersink set ups for driving screws. I have enclosed a photo of all three types. Well, they ALL suck. I need something that can do the job, be quick (time is money), easy to use, and will last. The one on the end is the third one of its kind that I have gotten, and now IT'S broken. The one in the middle slips over your bit in your screw gun, and slips back off to drive the screws. Problem with it is that it gets stuck very easily, and is almost impossible to get off without beating it off with a hammer. Sometimes it gets so loose that it just falls off at the most inappropriate time. The one on the far left is the age old, tried and true pilot bit and countersink. Trouble with this one is the fact that it takes 3 drills to make it have any speed of use at all (1 drill for bit, 1 drill for countersink, and 1 drill for driver bit).

    I use screws for framing lumber, 1 x lumber, cabinet work, etc... I do a LOT of work with screws, so I need something that will hold up to my kind of use and abuse. Most of the stuff I have run across is more oriented to the part time woodworker, DIY'er, or homeowner.

    If you use something different, and it has been used and abused (and keeps on going), please let me know.

    Thanks

    James

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