I have a warrenty problem that I have inherited from the original buildier. I remodelled a condo in San Francisco that had a combination of wood ceiling joist, resilient channel, and a radiant heat mesh. There is a cracking in the drywall along the resilient channel. We floated the ceiling with 3′ wide yellow mesh covering the cracks in two of the rooms and a simplier repair in one small room. In the small room the crack are back big time. In the rooms with the mesh they are just beginning to appear. I have been told by house inspector that he has heard of the problem. He suggested rocking over the ceiling. I am concerned about the channel failing due to increased weight.
Any ideas or comments?
Thanks
Replies
#345,
I'm wary of the diagnosis that it is the RH causing the cracks.
Is it only cracking at the DW joints? Every joint? Ends or sides?
Is the DW laid up parallel to the channel?
Are the end joints staggered?
What's the situation in area above the ceiling?
What was the screw schedule?
Uh. . .off the wall thought. . . are adjacent DW sheets attached to one RC or to two parallel channels?
How thick is the DW?
SamT
SamT
The cracks follow the channel. They first appear as wrinkles. They are not related to the butt joints or the bevel joits in the DW. The rock is 5/8th type X. The condo is in San Francisco.
The "cracks" are straight, spaced 16", and run perpendicular to the drywall's long side. We openned them, spot primed them with an alcohol based primer, set 3' wide rolls of yellow nylon mess in hot mud and then vennered the ceiling to a level 5 smoothe finish. And six months later they are coming back. The client saw them several weeks after she turned the heat back on. A few other condos in the complex have the same condition.Any suggestions?
If I understand you corrrectly, the cracks are not appearing on the beveled long edges (seams) nor on the butts but in the middle of the 5/8"?
This is odd since since RC-1 Channel main purpose is to neutralize wood shrinkage and cracks caused by humidity. I'll try to get you an article that I read a few years ago about the great benefits of RC-1 Channel.
You can add another layer of 5/8.
Brain hit..probably the rockers screwed thru the RC-1 and into the joist..a common occurance as it is faster than screwing into the moveable RC-1. For RC-1 to work properly, the screws should only be applied to itself and not past it into the wood.
SJD,
You said ' "Cracks" .' As in compression wrinkles? Uplifted above the plane of the DW? Uplifted if yer standing on yer head, that is.
I'm thinking that if the RC-1 was applied properly, it runs perpendicular to the joists, which are probably shrinking quite a bit from the loss of humidity with the heat turned on.
YOu may have to add another layer of RC-1 perpendicular to the existing and attached to it rather than the wood.
I would remove the existing DW if this is what you decide. You would only have to use 1/2" DW since the sound transmission from above would be greatly reduced by the use of two perpendicular sets of RC-1.
I personaly would cut a 2' x4' inspection port across 3 of the "cracks' before I did anything else.
SamT
Read this:
http://www.wconline.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,3299,22578,00.html
Since you have radiant ceiling heat, it may not be a matter of wood joists shrinking but of RC channel expanding since the cracks/wrinkling is at and along the length of the channels!! The radiant heat operates at somewhere around the 100-105* mark.
As for a simple, cheap solution......?????
Edited 12/8/2005 7:55 am ET by experienced
As for a simple, cheap solution......?????
Remove the radiant heat mesh, fix the drywall and there won't be any problem. I've never heard of any type of heat on a ceiling and totally missed the radient mesh on the ceiling. Why have heat on a ceiling..heat rises anyway.
Electric or hydronic radiant heat in ceilings has been used for many years. It works by warming the drywall/plaster to about 100* F. The heat then "radiates" downward to heat people, objects and even the floors. There have even been complaints from bald older gents in seniors' homes that it's too hot on the head!!
Been in construction for 20 years and never heard about and never seen it..must be a regional thing. Thanks for the info.
My son bought a house with it. I thought it created heat by spinning the electric meter at warp speed. Had a separate panel with nothing but 20A double pole breakers for the heat.
Wire embedded in a layer of mud on top of the drywall. Looked like a fire waiting to happen.
Joe H
That old style was very safe as was a roll-out , staple up heavy plastic film type (ESWA Brand from a nordic country-Finland or Norway??) There was a brand from Scotland, I believe, ( Flexwatt brand) that did have a re-call due to fire in a few models. It seems that the fault also involved the installing electricians also.
If all else fails, read the instructions!!!
You seemed concerned about the spinning electric meter. A story about electric radiant heat (Or any heat for that matter): Build the house well!
Last house (5 level, full 2 story + 1.5 story addition, 1 car garage + bonus room, 2490 sq ft finished and unfinished 900 sq ft basement) that I had full input on energy efficiency design was in 1987. It had ESWA radiant ceiling heat except for the basement (baseboard heaters). House had a permanent wood foundation with R28 insulation and R10 under the slab, R40 main walls and ceiling, Low E windows and a tested air exchange rate of .43 @ 50 pascals pressure difference- very tight. It had an average efficiency HRV- VAnEe at ~ 65%.
The clients were running out of cash so we only gave them R40 in the attic to be upgraded later to R60 at their discretion and they did not install heaters and t'stats in the unfinished but insulated basement. The house cost was $50 CDN per sq ft and that was with all the extras for energy efficiency plus 127 loads of fill to build grade around the house.
Clients moved in the first of October (local degree days= 8,000) and were very satisfied except for the living room which "seemed" a bit cool sometimes (always 69-70*F but never up to 72). I thought it might be a "cool effect" (Mean radiant temperature) from the large window there (she wanted a sunroom; couldn't afford it so gave her a big south facing window).
On Dec. 22, night ext. temps were down to -8*F. Next morning, got call from the client. Temp in living room was now below 68-69 and it felt cool. Went out and checked the t'stat- OK. Felt the ceiling- it was cool. Went to check circuit breaker- It was tripped. Turned it back on-it tripped immediately......OH NO!!!...first thought.....dead short buried in walls somewhere!!! (HORRORS! This was a hand plastered house.) Shut off all heat on that circuit-the breaker stayed on. On turning the heat on room by room found that there was no dead short but the breaker was tripping with not that much load on it- actually about 7 amps...a very weak breaker.
After this episode and upon thinking about the "cool" living room, I deduced that the most of the heat for the 986 sq ft main floor level had been off for a while..... probably since any 2 of 4 t'stats called for heat at the same time......and they did not know it. The front hall entry/stairwell, 1/2 bath, kitchen, dining and living rooms had no heat!! There was no heat installed in the basement and there were only 500 watts (1706 btu/s per hour) of heat functioning on the main floor over the kitchen breakfast nook. They had found all areas other than the living room OK until that cold night. It took a -8* F night to find this malfunctioning breaker.....not too shabby!!!! Build the house well!!!
In 1996, I phoned the current new owner (original was transferred) and enquired about his first years total electric bill.......family of 4......$1,435 at about $0.06/ kWh- everything included: heat, hot water, cooking, lights. The rates in that locale are about $0.08- .09 now, that would be about $1,910- $2,150.