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Discussion Forum

Critique my Fence Design

eskals | Posted in General Discussion on April 29, 2008 06:13am

Getting ready to build a fence, and would like to hear some feedback on my fence design.  I am trying to keep the costs down so will be using pressure treated (my first choice would be cedar, but just cannot justiy the additional cost).

Planning to set 4×4 posts at 8′ OC.  6′ Tall Panels with 2×6 top and bottom rail attached to the posts with Simpson Angle Brackets.  Nail 1×6 Pickets to the top and bottom rails, then put 1×6 trim piece over the fastners.

Can I get by with just 2-2×6 rails without sag or wobble?  Was planning to use 3-2×4 rails, but prefer the look of no middle rail.  I’m also slightly concerned about the unsupported middle of the 1×6 pickets warping and twisting as they dry.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

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Replies

  1. ruffmike | Apr 29, 2008 07:30am | #1

    I prefer posts 6' o.c.  8' might not sag but if anyone hops your fence or walks it it will be awfully stressed.

    How much fence are you building? How many more posts would be needed for 6'o.c.?

    I would use pressure treated for the frame, cedar for the fence boards.

    I like the simpson fence brackets with screws. The fences in my yard are all screwed, simpson screws in the brackets, deck screws in the fence boards.

    View Image

                                Mike

        Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.

    1. wane | Apr 29, 2008 03:05pm | #3

      use 2 X 4 rails, not 2 X 6, and certainly not on flat, put them on edge, stronger and less surface area for water to sit on ..

       

  2. Piffin | Apr 29, 2008 02:23pm | #2

    I don't see any problems with that.

     

     

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  3. User avater
    popawheelie | Apr 29, 2008 04:04pm | #4

    How thick are the pickets you are going to use? The reason I ask is because some of them have gotten pretty thin.

    The older thicker ones didn't need a middle rail but the new ones are soooo thin that I think they need support in the middle.

    1. factotam | Apr 29, 2008 04:46pm | #5

      "I think they need support in the middle"

      that is espically true for the treated pickits which tend to twist, warp and bow as they dry, a middle rail helps

    2. eskals | Apr 29, 2008 05:01pm | #6

      All the precut fence pickets are only 5/8" (at most).  I don't feel too comfortable with those.

      I was planning to use 1x6 pickets, but I may end up using 5/4x6 decking instead.  The cost difference is negligible and the material is nicer quality.

      Here are a couple different options....

      1. User avater
        popawheelie | Apr 29, 2008 05:26pm | #7

        I thought you said you were on a budget?

        Probably the fastest/least expensive way to build this is to space the treated posts at 8', use three treated rails, and get the less expensive cedar pickets.

        I think that is just about as minimal as you can go.

        From there everything goes up in price and time. 

        Sometimes I like to build at the limit of expense and strength. It's kind of a challenge.

      2. rasconc | Apr 29, 2008 05:28pm | #8

        Those all look  good, what is your wind load situation?  A guy down the road put in a long fence that was probably 7 or 8' high and now has some ugly bracing on it.  Would not have had the problem if shadow boxed or good neighbor fence as some call it with alternating pickets on either side.  Also does not cut down breeze which could be eother pro or con.

        What program did you use to draw that alt style pdf?

        Edited 4/29/2008 10:30 am ET by rasconc

        1. eskals | Apr 30, 2008 05:50am | #12

          I used AutoCad to draw it, and then plotted it to a PDF.

          Wife hates the alternating board style fences....so that is immediately off the list of possibilities :)

          5/4 decking is probably waayyy too heavy.  I hadn't considered the weight of that stuff.

          1. rasconc | Apr 30, 2008 06:27am | #13

            Thanks! 

      3. john7g | Apr 29, 2008 05:29pm | #9

        If you're worried about sag I'd stay away from the 5/4 decking unless your local supply has really thin 5/4. 

        If you want rigid and sag free I'd think about putting a strongback (2 2x edge to face (looks like an L)) in at leat on of the 3 locations of the rails.

  4. cliffy | Apr 29, 2008 06:46pm | #10

    Yes you can get by with the 2x6 if it is vertical.   I've done this more thatn once.  I did it 20 years ago at my mother's house and it still is structurally fine.

    Have a good day

    Cliffy

  5. woodway | Apr 29, 2008 08:16pm | #11

    PT 4x4 posts every 8 feet OC. This means the distance between the posts if close to 7'- 8 1/2 inches.

    Each "panel" between posts is composed of "one" PT 2x6 and two each rough sawn 2x4 top/bottom rails. The vertical fill pieces between posts, slats, are composed of 1x6 or 1x8 fence material (usually takes about 14 for each panel assuming about 1/2 to 3/4 inch overlap each side).

    Dig and set your 4 x 4 x 8' posts in 2 feet of concrete leaving 6 feet of post above ground (take your time and set them plumb and in line with one another). Once the concrete has cured for a day, a pressure treated 2x6 installed first between the posts, "on edge" against the earth at the bottom of each section, toe nail in place and be sure it's level between adjacent fence sections. Next, cut and face nail one piece of rough cut 2x4 to the top of the 2x6 just installed. The 2x4 should not be on edge but flat against the 2x6 below, nailed with 16 d HD nails every 16 inches or so. The front and back edge of these top and bottom rails should be about fluch with the front and back edges of each post. Nest, install your 2x4 top rail to mirror the 2x4 you just installed on the bottom. Install the top rail either to the top of each post or notched into the side of the post by about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. The next step is to install the vertical fill pieces(slats) between these top and bottom rails so that the stiffness and ground support of the bottom two rails, the PT 2x6 and the attached 2x4 faced nailed together, is transferred through the vertical slats to the top rail of the fence. Your fence will never sag if done properly.

    The trick then becomes one of attaching the vertical slats to the horizontal top and bottom rails. I use strips of 1X fence stock ripped to just over 3/4 inch and nailed to the back edge of each top and bottom rail. The vertical slats are then nailed in place between the top and bottom rails and a second "cover strip" of 3/4 inch ripped stock is nailed over the slats on the inside edge of the top and bottom rails. Try to toe nail (6d or 8d HD galv nails) the vertical slats into the 2x4 rails rather then into the ripped 1x fence stock since it really is there just to cover the nails and provide some added support to each slat.

    Once the ripped pieces on the inside are installed, your done. Some added support can be achieved by overlapping each slat to the one beside it and screwing each together at the mid point with an exterior grade screw.

    If the soil has little holding power, you can go a little deeper and use 10 foot 4 x 4 posts and more concrete to secure each post into the soil. KEEP THE POST HOLES AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE SINCE THE MORE UNDISTURBED SOIL YOU HAVE THE STRONGER THE POST AND THE LESS DIRT THAT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED! Big wide holes means a weaker post and more concrete so watch that hole diameter!

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