Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 14, 2005 04:04am | #1

   Hi jason.

   Part of this is technique and part is as you state, in the manufacture of the shingles. Some of them are better in cold weather and others better in warm weather.

   I had developed a technique of bumping the shingle to the previously laid one, pulling back a half inch and bumping true the second time. This way, the rougher edges are often knocked off so the real meat of each shingle meets the other.

   in each area, there are brands that the local roofers consider poor, noit because of lengevity, but because of how hard to install well.

   I normally started in the middle of a roof section and ran both ways. in four courses, it was noticeable and on larger roofs, I would have to re-set as you describe within seven courses. Most times tho, it is not necessary to cut them. I would use a shingle for a gauge, bumping it against the longest two at top and at bottom to get marks for new lines. Then I would sstart afresh on those lines, laying up the new course with 36" between unlaid. after finishing that new rack to the top, I would do the infill. Where most shingles there had gaps, I could shuffle to split the diff, half on each side. only rarely had to trim one shorter.

   Another racking style that totally avoids this problem with manufacturers flaws was to stair-step the patern 5/5 instead of straight up. You get a more random pattern that repeats only about 7-8 shingles per. It is a pleasing pattern

    

    

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2. 
   Hazlett | Jul 14, 2005 02:22pm | #2

    jason,

    there are 2 things you can do about this

   1) don't use OC 20 year 3 tabs!!!! they are not worth the effort to install. they may be in-expensive----but what are you really saving---what's the difference in price between the oc 20 years----and a proper shingle???---maybe $400 or so on this roof?----the OC's are costing you more than that on this project in additional effort. LOL

   2) assuming for some reason you HAVE to use the oc's.

   I would use a different layout----instead of a 6 inch offset( snapping 2 vertical bung lines

   use a 4 inch  offset using 3 vertical bung lines.

    doing this----your keyways will line up every 3rd course instead of every other course-------any discepency in keyways will be virtually un-noticeable. you can rack with this pattern or stair step----in fact when stairstepping this pattern is even faster than the 6 inch offset because you can reach several more courses from each position( less moving about for Jason!!!!!).

    this is an excellent pattern for cut-up ,complicated roofs with a lot of tie-ins around dormers etc.

    one last thing----if possible take a couple of handfulls of shingles down on the ground. dry lay the usual 6 inch offset on the driveway with 5-6 shingles---and dry lay the 4inch offset with 5-6 shingles.---talk to the homeowner explaining the difference---and pointing out WHY the 4inch offset you are suggesting is going to be superior for the homeowner in this situation.

    most homeowners will stare and stare and stare at the 2 samples and not really be able to see the difference---so they will not object----BUT they will appreciate that you took the time to show them your concern and that you are concientiously trying to produce the best product within the constraints of the available materials.

   ( Btw---I have been using Elk for years---but over the last 2 years or so I have to admidt using more and more Certainteed Landmark 30's)

    Verybest wishes, Stephen

1. 
   JasonPharez | Jul 15, 2005 11:32pm | #3

   Hey Steve, thank to you (and Pif) for the replies--yes I had to use the OC's b/c that's what the homeowner had bought and they're an old couple who could just afford the job---they'll be gone before the roof needs replacement again.

   I thought about the 4 or 5 inch offsets but not one house in my city (that I've seen, anyway) has it, so I run the risk of being "unconventional" I suppose.

   I will add on the first side I snapped bond lines and then eyeballed the little slits in the tops of the shingles--not good! Yesterday, I stuck to my bond lines and made sure every shingle was slapped up tight to its neighbor (like Pif suggested)--only one or two courses were off, and that was probably due to my helpers negligence more than the shingles.

   Thanks a lot, and I'd rather use Elk 30's myself!Jason Pharez Construction

      Framing & Exterior Remodeling

1. 
   Hazlett | Jul 16, 2005 04:39pm | #4

    Jason,

    look on the bright side.

    you just learned several very valuable lessons

   Make up your mind NOW

   that you are a professional contractor---and that YOU supply the materials---not the homeowner.

   To me at least------I think you would have been better off NOT doing this job----rather than possibly having your professional reputation suffer from the consequences of using a pretty marginal material.

   Believe me, I know that it is easy to feel sorry for folks on a limmited budget

   but what folks can or cannot afford is not really your concern.

    what IS your concern is doing a proper, quality job----for folks who can pay the cost.

   You will be suprised how many of these folks actually CAN pay---but are very good at looking like they can't.

    Best of luck to you in the future,

   Stephen

1. 
   JasonPharez | Jul 16, 2005 05:35pm | #5

   Well actually Steve, they didn't provide "all" of the materials: We were originally contracted to rebuild a front porch damaged by Ivan last year. When we pulled back the tarps and started roofing the new porch, we noticed that the old roof already has two layers in some spots and that the old roof was just about period. They had provided all materials (as per my takeoff) for the porch and its roof, so when I ordered materials for the rest of the roof, I had to order what had already been installed on the roof of the porch (the OC 3-tabs).

   I would much rather have used GAF instead because their 3 tabs seem much more consistent (not to mention heavier and thicker), plus my supplier for GAF and Elk loads them on the roof for me. In this case, it just wasn't to be!

   I have another 24-square reroof coming up Tuesday with GAF 3-tabs on a much newer house--we'll see how it goes.

   Thanks again.Jason Pharez Construction

      Framing & Exterior Remodeling