Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | May 19, 2000 07:48am | #1

   *
   This topic received a bit of healthy debate a while back. Put on your hip waders and step on in...

   < Obsolete Link > Once

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   Enjoy.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 20, 2000 02:49pm | #2

   *Charles, when you finish wading through all of the b@lls&*t mathematical answers - find a good planing mill in your vicinity. In order to get a pitched rake crown molding to meet a horizontal crown molding at the right angle the pitched molding must be i developedthat is, 'expanded' to meet the horizontal crown at all the correct profile points. Some planing mills carry combination crown/developed crown sets for just this purpose. Some have the capacity to work out the profiles for you, at a cost. You might get lucky and find a developed crown that matches your regular crown 'close enough.'I don't know where you are located but the mill I have used in the past for just this purpose is Lititz Planing Mill in Lititz, PA. Ask for Jeff May. They also have a molding catalog that will impress you, particularly for historical profiles no longer popular.Good luckb Been there, done that, can't remember

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   Guest_ | May 20, 2000 02:55pm | #3

   *Hey Jeff, Thanks for that interesting bit of info. Does Lititz Planing Mill have a web site or e-mail address?

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   Guest_ | May 20, 2000 04:12pm | #4

   *I would disagree that a crown mould has to be a custom width to match in this case. For instance, if the two CM's meet and form a 150 angle, the angle of the mitre cut for each piece at the joint would be 75 degrees. In the case of unequal mitres such as 100 & 50 at the joint, then a different width in pieces would be needed.Pete

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   Guest_ | May 20, 2000 09:46pm | #5

   *O.K., but in this case it is a pitched crown meeting a plumb crown. The pitched crown is going to have to be wider no matter what, thus the need for the developed molding. Under certain circumstances (low pitch, etc.) you can fudge it. On 7:12 pitch there's no other way if the front crown is plumb.JeffLititz is pretty 'old school' - I doubt they have a web site but I'll find out.

2. 
   Guest_ | May 20, 2000 09:50pm | #6

   *Pete - If you pick up a piece of crown and look at it plumb and 'end on' and hold up another at right angles you'll see right away that they won't meet at any equal angle. A calculated widened piece is needed - i.e. Charles is right, it's impossible to do with two identical pieces of crown, other than to 'fudge it.'

2. 
   Gary_Kilmer | May 21, 2000 12:35am | #7

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   Speaking of crown molding- is it possible to cope crown when the inside corner is 45 degrees rather than 90 degrees? I cant figure it out, it seems like I can't back cut it enough. HELP!

3. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 01:01am | #8

   *
   I meant to say, hold up the second piece at right angles and pitched ...

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   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 01:28am | #9

   *Info on Lititz Planing Mill -

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   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 02:25am | #10

   *Check out Delta's site. They have pages of angle settings on their site. I forget the address but it should be easy to search.

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   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 03:21am | #11

   *I was visualizing the facia and rake being on the same wall and guess I really didn't read the question all too well.There must be some other alternative to the placement of the joint to solve this prob without expensive millwork. One of those things I guess you just gotta see in person.Pete

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   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 04:24am | #12

   *Yup, that's a problem. It might be the perfect case for a mitre. It is poss. to cope some of the less rigorous crowns but like you say, you gotta back cut the daylites out of it. Mitre and glue. Best of luck.

2. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 05:19am | #13

   *Maybe Im reading you wrong but are you talking about an inside 45 such as you would see with angled corner wall cabinets?The way I install crown on these are to attach the angled cabinet crown first (straight cuts).I then run the adjacent crown(s) into it ....cut 22 degrees and coped.Ive also run two 22's (mitered angles) into each other but the inside corner needs to be at a true 45 for you to have good results.

3. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 06:51pm | #14

   *CORRECTION.....221/2 degrees EXCUSE MEEEEEE!

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   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 08:19pm | #15

   *Imagine it w/ (2) 2 x 4's at right angles. Once you have one plumb and start raking the other one, the plumb cut on the raking 2 x 4 gets longer and longer as you tip it up. At a shallow pitch with a simple molding, you can fudge it. But at 7:12 with a crown it pretty much has to be that way.This is one of the main reasons in my mind why cornice returns were invented. The raking crown can die on top of a level surface while the plumb fascia crown turns the corner under the return and self-returns onto a fascia block.

5. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 2000 08:38pm | #16

   *Follow the information in this extract from Ernest Joyce, The Technique (US Encyclopedia) of Furniture Making for your solution. George Ellis, Modern Practical Joinery is another excellent (perhaps better) resource for solving these knotty conundrums. Sliante.> http://webx.taunton.com/WebX?233@@.ee84398/73!enclosure=.ee851d9

6. 
   Guest_ | May 22, 2000 03:20am | #17

   *Go here:

7. 
   Guest_ | May 22, 2000 01:13pm | #18

   *Jerry- you're right that is what I was refering to. I have tried setting the crown upright on my miter saw and also laying down flat and can't seem to back cut the molding enough for the two pieces to come together tight. Don't you have this problem?

8. 
   Guest_ | May 22, 2000 06:14pm | #19

   *Thanks for the diagram. Figure 62:5 basically shows how to make a developed molding, as discussed.b Been there, done that, can't remember ...

9. 
   Guest_ | May 23, 2000 01:46am | #20

   *My pleasure. I mostly just lurk in this specific forum because I'm a furniture maker, not a builder. One major difference between the UK and the US seems to be that many of these mouldings- in the US anyway, don't have a back face and top edge that form a right angle to each other, and the moulding therefore cants out from the wall, or piece of furniture if we are talking furniture cornice. This practice saves timber, but requires the installer to do unnecessarily complicated geometry,.......or mentally reinstall the missing square back portion of the mould to make it relatively easy to work out the requisite profiles and cuts. It's perfectly do-able of course, as illustrated by numerous historical and modern examples in furniture (and these mouldings and their layout are largely derived from architectural styles.) I just like to keep it pretty simple, as per Joyce or Ellis. Sliante.

10. 
    Guest_ | May 23, 2000 03:16am | #21

    *Jerry,I could be wrong, but I didn't get the impression that Gary was yanking your chain. It sounded like an honest question to me....ps, I'm not yanking either...

11. 
    Guest_ | May 23, 2000 06:33pm | #22

    *Nice home page! I too grew up in England, at least for three years.You're right, the 'missing' triangle is typical - it's there in recognition that most wall surfaces, unlike your furniture, aren't plumb and square; also so you can easily scribe crown to a ceiling or lumpy wall, etc. You can also 'cheat' and tip the molding if necessary, although this can also lead to problems if you don't work to an offset line (where the top of the crown should finish) on the ceiling.Also, in a crazy house like mine where you can't easily find the studs (1" cement plaster over wire lath) you can install a continuous wood nailer in this triangular space, anchored to the framing, to which crown can be fastened anywhere.Ailtireb Been there, done that, can't remember ...

12. 
    Guest_ | May 24, 2000 04:45am | #23

    *Luka,check the times and dates of my post and Gary's and you will see that my 'excuse meeee' wasn't directed at him or anyone else for that matter.

4. 
   Charles_M._Sallade | May 24, 2000 04:45am | #24

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   I would like to know if there is a method to cutting crown molding so that the profiles line up properly when being used on fascia. The tricky part is that the molding is coming down the fascia on a 7 in 12 pitch gable end, and meeting up with molding on the ends of the rafters that have a plum cut, NOT a square cut. This makes the cut a compound angle with a complicated solution (if there is one)! I've been told it can't be done, but I refuse to take no for an answer.