After a long stent in healthcare, I finally regained my senses and returned to carpentry and paint finish. However, I’m having to re-learn a few of, ok quite a few techniques. Which brings me to my question. What is the best and most efficient way to measure a room for crown molding when you’re working alone?
Thankyou
jb
Key proposals for the next edition of the International Residential Code tackle room sizes, stair specs, emergency egress, and deck guards, among other requirements.
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Replies
JB,
Welcome to BT. You'll get fast, accurate results with a laser. Try the search engine here for comments on the Leica, Bosch, Stabila and Hilti ones, among others.
Also see this video on laser distance measuring
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/video/tool-review/handheld-laser-measuring-tools.aspx
and this article that appeared recently in FHB
https://www.finehomebuilding.com/tools/handheld-laser-measures.aspx?ac=ts&ra=fp
Best,
Steve
View Image
After a long stent in healthcare,
Is that a Pfreudian misspelling, LOL?
;0)
I've never used a laser gizmo of the sort Steve (Fat Roman) suggets, so I can't comment on that. However, if you work alone and don't want to go electronic, I'd suggest getting a 1.25"-wide tape (FatMax is one brand) which will stand out up to 10 or 11 feet.
Generally, though, I try to measure as little as possible when setting crown or other trim work. Whenever I can, I prefer to offer up the pieces and mark them instead.
Unless the length of the wall is shorter than 8 feet, you're going to need two or more pieces of crown to cover it, so nail one piece in place, cut the angle on the opposite corner, and hold the second piece up in place. Mark the cut where the second piece laps the first one.
If the room is long enough to require three or more lengths of moulding, nail up the two end pieces first, then work towards the center.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
I dont have a laser tape either never seem to be able to spend the money. Most of the time if its a long run Ill stand in the middle or as far as I can hold the tape, make a small mark at like 80" or a nice even number, then measure from the other end and add em together.
Come on Danno, that is too easy!>G<
Around here fingerjoint (which I don't use), species, and mdf crown are available in 16' lengths. Foam is usually limited to 8' long lengths. 16' lengths of MDF can be a bit floppy, species crown if lighter and more rigid.
For my initial measurement, to plan my lengths needed I just measure around the base of the room and add a couple of inches for slop. If the walls are longer than 16' I'll need scarf joints, I plan those depending on how you enter the room and based on the lighting in the room.
When it comes time to measuring the true lengths needed, a Fat Max or long reach tape can help quite a bit. Outside corners are a cinch since you can hook the tape, inside corners I'll measure twice. You can get so far using that method. Flop in the tape will result in a slightly long measurement, you'll get the hang of how much. I usually cut long pieces a tad long anyway, then bow and snap them into place, compressing the inside corners tight.
For sections in the 12'-16' realm where the tape might flop a bit too much, I'll use the technique already mentioned. Mark a handy midpoint on the wall and measure in from each corner.
If it's an inside corner to an outside corner piece, sometimes instead of hooking the tape on the outside corner I'll cut the inside corner, dry set it in place, then let the crown overhang the outside corner and mark the length while holding it in place.
I'll use a mix of these methods. It all depends on how tall the room is, if I have planking set up or if I'm working off one or more ladders, and which direction I'm working around the room. Example; if working off a single ladder I'll try to minimize the number of times I have to reset the ladder's location.
First, do an Advanced Search (at the top left on my screen). It’s all been covered pretty thoroughly in many threads.
I’ll say this, though: if you're just returning, you might have other purchase priorities that come before a $200 laser tool. I just finished a crown job on which I used a 100” stick a lot:
Hold it into the corner about where the bottom of the crown will hit, and mark the wall at the end of the stick. Butt your tape into the other corner, and read the distance to your mark. If it reads 35 11/16”, cut your crown to 135 3/4”, and snap it in.
Very accurate, and very little chance of making a mental error that way. On walls shorter than 100”, I’ll sometimes measure 40, 50, or 60” from the wall, and make a mark freehand, but using a stick is much quicker and more accurate.
Where you can get into trouble is when there’s too little difference between the room size and what you read off your tape. That is, if you use a 10” stick, there’s a danger of ending up with a piece that’s 10” too short. With a 60” stick there’s less likelihood of making that mistake.
AitchKay
That's good advice...I haven't done it that way-but I'll add it to my bag of tricks <grin> like Felix the cat...I also like story poles for cabinets and custom one offssilver
I measure crown the same way I measure baseboard moulding.....
I make a short slice in the drywall at an inside corner, just long and deep enough to insert the "stupid end" of my tape measure. Ideal situation, I'm working off of a rolling scaffold and simply roll myself to the next corner. Otherwise it's up and down a ladder a few times being careful not to pull the tape free of the corner.
R.I.P. RAZZMAN
I make a short slice in the drywall at an inside corner, just long and deep enough to insert the "stupid end" of my tape measure
I never thought of doing that. That's a great tip, thanks.
Thanks, learnt a new trick.
That is why I love this forum!!!!
i like measuring sticks.... another thing i like to do is to measure about 10'......usually puts you past the center of the wall... make a mark... then reverse your tape and measure the remainder
Lots of good tips!hope this isn't a hijack...I just ran some crown around some kitchen cabinets...measure-no problembut holding up the outboard end-problemI made a small deadman and duct taped it to the cabinet...but I don't have a clever jig yet to hold the end away from me in the bangon right position...lee valley sells a crwon moulding hanger-11 bucks- but someone must have a handy jig?thanks,silver
I use "3rd-Hand" poles a lot. Set out from the wall a bit, and angled towards it, they do a decent job of holding crown up and in.On hardwood floors, though, they sometimes slip out on you. But I picked up a few lead bricks at salvage, measuring about 3"x4"x8", and weighing 40#. I wrapped them with plywood, both to make them less toxic to handle, and to make them easier to screw into, and screwed a barn-door handle onto each one, to make it easy to pick up. Man, are they useful! Setting one on one of my rubber kneeling pads, just behind one of my poles to avoid slipping, is just one of the many ways I use them.Crown has a tendency to creep, too, moving away from its designed spring, to a position a little too flat to the wall. So I've cut a couple of vertical-push blocks for my 3rd-Hand poles -- each a 4-6" chunk of 2x4 with a 1/2" groove leading up to a shallow 3/4" hole that receives the ball end of the pole with the swivel pad removed.With the foot of the pole about 6-8" from the wall, the 2x4 block sits flat to the wall and transfers all of the pole's thrust straight up against the very bottom edge of the crown. By loosening an angled pole, and tightening a vertical one, I can adjust the crown to sit right on the lines that I've previously laid out on the wall and/or ceiling.I make a one-time payment for my poles/clamps/jigs, etc, so I don't have to worry about paying a helper by the hour, and I make out OK in the end.AitchKay
I screwed a bracket to the top of my third hand. Fit so that the crown nestles in almost in the proper position. You slip the one end in, leaves you the ability to fit the other end.
If needing to fit to a pc and then going to another end to scribe the cut, I'll use the collins clamps to hold the first end right on while I go to theother end.
My 3rd hand bracket drops down from the pad like an "L", you still tighten the top up to the ceiling.
In a cab crown install, down below the ceiling I make another bracket that I clamp to the cab. face frame to hold the end.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Lots of helpful tricks-thanks for your time...it will help me put my own plan into place.
the lead bricks-cool
"I make a one-time payment for my poles/clamps/jigs, etc, so I don't have to worry about paying a helper by the hour, and I make out OK in the end."
I do this a lot too-for the cabinet job, I took an old 1" ply work table and ripped a 14" x 8' piece. This on top of 2 light aluminum sawhorses made a fast, quick and easy setup- to measure and fit at the top of the cabinets.
thanks!
silver
"In a cab crown install, down below the ceiling I make another bracket that I clamp to the cab. face frame to hold the end."
Except there was no faceframe...
"My 3rd hand bracket drops down from the pad like an "L", you still tighten the top up to the ceiling."
this is a good idea and I can easily adapt to work for me...thanks for the ideas!
silver
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=62045&cat=1,43456 I wish I was clever and could paste the picture from the lee valley on line catalogHowever the above link should take you to the crown molding hanger...these look like a bargain at 10.95 each and they look like they would work in any situation...and they look fast quick and easy.there is also no risk with lee valley-90 day money back guarantee so I think I'll try them and report back with a review.thanks to everyone for the great tricks-I leart a few new ones from this thread...and it's about the tricks...silver
"I wish I was clever and could paste the picture from the lee valley on line catalog"Before I could compose my "Solid Timber Mantle Scribed To Stone" thread, I had to spend about a week learning how to re-size pics, how to set up an online gallery and export the pics to it, then learn the correct HTML keystrokes for embedding the photos into the text of the thread.WHEW! It was a lot of work to learn. Oh, and of course first I had to scan all my old mantle pics and Polaroids from the pre-digi days.****************"However the above link should take you to the crown molding hanger..."It looks like it's worth it. I still have a couple of clunky versions of that that I made back in '94. Same angled slot, like a roofing bracket. Mine don't have the adjustable slide -- you have to set the screw right where you want it. Set the crown in place on it, then a little spring(read hair tie)-loaded arm snaps up to keep the top from tipping out.Lee Valley's jig looks easier to use. You could make your own, but not for $11-worth of labor.AitchKay
Hey, Aitch -- hate to spoil all your hard work learning the pic posting tricks, but if the pic you wanna post is already on the Web, re-posting is simple -- all you gotta do is right click on the pic, choose "copy", then right click and paste in your BT post, (or simply hit Ctrl +v at the instert spot) like so:
View Image
Course, if you wanna post your own pics, you're right. It works best to upload them to a site like Flickr and then cut & paste. FWIW, if you upload to Flickr, and click on the pic you wanna post, you can choose "all sizes" from the menu above the pic, and then choose the size you want to copy & paste. Saves on re-sizing 'cause Flickr does it fer ya.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
"Saves on re-sizing 'cause Flickr does it fer ya."Good to know.I used Picasa, so I had to download a Resize Me free trial. I'll try Flickr next time. Sounds a lot easier, and I won’t have to pay for a resizing program when my free trial expires.Following Picasa's standard copy-and-paste instructions did NOT work. Life got a whole lot easier when I learned to right click. My old Mac didn't have that feature, so I didn’t know about it when I got a new one. I didn't figure out how cool it is until several days into the process.Getting all of the <br/><br/>, and, <img src=""/> HTMLBS straight took a while, too.But in the end? Old Dog, New Trick!AitchKay
No need to pay for a resizer -- Windows has a free add-on that lets you resize by right-clicking. Lemme know if you want a pointer to where to download the program from MS, or you can Google "Image Resizer Powertoy" & Microsoft.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Copy and paste works only with IE browser. With FireFox or Safari you have to edit your post as HTML and use the string, <p><img src="">. If you have a picture on a Picasa web album, just right click and copy the web location, then insert that into the HTML string above between the " marks.
BruceT
Edited 11/30/2009 11:39 pm by brucet9
Yep. Learned it all the hard way, unfortunately, but I was able to figure it out eventually, and post my thread.Thanks,AitchKay
Good post and great info!I did try rightclick/ copy-but it was late and the mice in my computer are getting old and tired and really slow...but I'll try again and see if it works for me.I'm not familiar with flickr but you just gave me a quick heads up and I learn fast-I'll give it a try as well. thanks!silver
I'll keep ya posted on how they work...I've gotten cheap as I get older-but I ain't old yetbut 11 bucks-you're right as usual-not worth dickin' aroundsilver
A 100" stick for measuring....Make a mark, measure back to mark from opposite end, add the two together and there ya go....I make up my outside corners first, let the glue dry, sand before putting up to make it easier...Some crowns cope, some don't...Doesn't matter just get the fit perfect before moving on to next joint...Luck
Can you tell I spend most of my time working solo?
R.I.P. RAZZMAN
As do I, but I usually get help with crown molding. Not because I need someone to hold the other end of tape measure, but because I usually need help just carrying the molding through and around obstacles into the room. Do you have any tricks for that? :-)
Keep the front high, back low.
Put down all #### on tables etc. Tie up chandeliers.
Pictures I remove-they always hang them with some #### ty little nail if you don't.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"Pictures I remove-they always hang them with some #### ty little nail if you don't."That's funny right there-I took over the base and handrail reinstall from a hardwood buddy of mine.He tore the place up-stacked stuff on the couch-with a picture behind the couch.I didn't take the picture done cuz it was behind all the ####...anyway next to last cut by my helper on a base return...backfired right through the glass...cost me 50. bucks to have the glass fixed.we still laugh about it-I say it I had to fix one of her fragupsbut really...my fault.silver
that damn murphy, at it again.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Jesus Murphy-as I've taken to sayingI live with 3 gurls who watch Heartland-canuck horsie/girlie showanyway-Jack-cowboy grandpa-likes to say... Jesus Murphy...
look what ya did to the picture, gurlsilver
I hope two of the girls are your daughters, that's a heck of an undertaking right there.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
You're right and it is...
Do you have any tricks for that? :-)
Just one.....and it only works with the proper clientelle....
Two seperate estimates.....the one leaving furniture and finishes untouched within the rooms to be worked on is twice as much as the one where homeowner agrees to have room emptied before my arrival....... ; )
R.I.P. RAZZMAN
"...you might have other purchase priorities that come before a $200 laser tool."
Bosch Laser Range finder is available on Amazon for $89 with free shipping and no sales tax. They guarantee 1/16" accuracy over 100 feet. Mine is dead nuts on as compared to my Fat Max tape measure.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_3_11?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bosch+laser+rangefinder&sprefix=bosch+laser
Not as cheap as a 100" stick, but more fun to play with the cat, watching him chase that little red dot all over the place.
OOOH! Why did you have to go and tell me that?!??AitchKayPS And it's really easy to spend as much as $40 on a Fat Max, too.
Bosch Laser Range finder...or you serious...Jesus Murphy-I had no idea!until it breaks, or the battery is dead or it goes all funkythen I'll reach for my 100" stick which will forever be a 100" stick with no batterythat said-I love technology and soon I be gettin' me one of those
dadburned Bosch Laser Range finders.silver ranger
"...soon I be gettin' me one of those
dadburned Bosch Laser Range finders.silver ranger"Uhh, Kemosabe not wait too long. Dollar falling lately, price maybe go up soon. :)(with apologies to Jay Silverheels)BruceT
I'll send Tonto asap via pony express and dog sled with Canadian tire money...silver<grin>
Leica is better. But don't say anything to Shep. His is a Hilti.
Leica is better.that is good to know...dispatching pony express message to catch Tonto on dog sled buying triphi ho silver
This be the one I got. You can get another lesser without bells & whistles if those numbers scare you. But it is a great tool to have.http://www.lascolaser.com/product/-DISTO-D3-Leica-Disto-Laser-Distance-Meter-Free-Next-Day-Air--Price-Match-Guarantee_Qitem759945.html
thanks for that...ummm...santa-am I still on the naughty list cuz of er...you know
all this talk about magnets in corners got me to thinking...now I haven't done this yet but...when fitting a tricky install-mdf crown wonky or no 3rd handtake a rare earth magnet and drill/glue on unfitted outboard cabinet corner-drill and mount matching washer in crownclip nice outside miter with collins clipstick other end to magnet fit-cut fit-cut fit-cut installreally could work for me...once a year but a good once a yearthen hold it up with yer 100" stinkin" stickcheerssilvr
Is a "third hand" different somehow from a spring-loaded ZipWall post?
Is a "third hand" different somehow from a spring-loaded ZipWall post?
Only if you ask a representative from either Third Hand or Zipwall...
R.I.P. RAZZMAN
Edited 11/30/2009 11:32 pm ET by JDRHI
Is a "third hand" different somehow from a spring-loaded ZipWall post? "Only if you ask a representative from either Third Hand or Zipwall..."LOLIt's answers like that that make BT fun as well as informative.BruceT
Cheaper, that I know. Got hooked up with a couple as a field test and review. After that, bought a half dozen more.
Check the spec's on both for a comparison.
I'm satisfied with Fastcaps' customer service, the products (many) they offer, and the quality. Used to be you could online / phone buy-I think now you need to find a supplier.
Little hands, the shorter version are very useful as well on cab. installs.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"Otherwise it's up and down a ladder a few times being careful not to pull the tape free of the corner."
Drive a couple of drywall screws near the free tape end (under where the crown will run) and stick a rare-earth magnet over the tape to hold it in place.
"Drive a couple of drywall screws near the free tape end (under where the crown will run) and stick a rare-earth magnet over the tape to hold it in place."You can also knock a hole in the wall, slip the cable from your winch in from the outside, and clip it to your tape. Walk to the other side of the room, climb the ladder, then press the button on the winch's remote until your tape end is flush with the wall.But I think I'll stick with my stick.AitchKay
Thanks. Now I have to get a cloth to wipe all this coffee off my screen.
You can also knock a hole in the wall, slip the cable from your winch in from the outside, and clip it to your tape. Walk to the other side of the room, climb the ladder, then press the button on the winch's remote until your tape end is flush with the wall.
I'm laughing picturing that with a 25' tape in a 30' room ;o)
Hey, why even measure for crown?Just pull the dimensions of the room off the architect's plans and cut away without even getting on a ladder. 8^)
That'd be fine <cough> if the walls were plumb and square the way they're supposed to be ...
"Just pull the dimensions of the room off the architect's plans and cut away without even getting on a ladder."LOL Now that might be the funniest line yet.BruceT
"Drive a couple of drywall screws near the free tape end (under where the crown will run) and stick a rare-earth magnet over the tape to hold it in place."
Hey- learned something new today-thanks for that-good tip!silver
"Drive a couple of drywall screws near the free tape end (under where the crown will run) and stick a rare-earth magnet over the tape to hold it in place."The thing I like about that trick is that by driving and removing at least 8 screws per room and then, after you've got your measurement, walking back and climbing up and down first the ladder to remove the magnet before it breaks your tape... You have just saved yourself the trouble of cutting one 100" stick per job (assuming you always throw the stick away at the end of each job).For further savings, if you remove and re-use the screws as you go, you can save yourself SIX SCREWS per room! WOW!AitchKay
I saw it more as jam relief...don't have big stick...stick broke...need 1 stinkin' measurement-tape keeps falling downbut a good odd trick in a jam,ehsilver stickman-speak softly and carry a 100" stick
strange question, what do you cut 100" stick out of?For me it would be 1X4 which would warp if I made it a 1X2
You need to get out more.
A 1/2x1/2 rip of poplar will be straight as an arrow forever.
That you'd get when you rip a pc of poplar for something else......and don't cut it up for firewood.
Should be leaning against the wall (hopefully the shop has 10 ft ceilings. Another reason to frame'm tall.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
'Nuff said!AitchKay
We do not get poplar lumber up here much.
The last stuff I used was in '93 when I left the cabinet shop.Can not even get clear fir.
"For further savings, if you remove and re-use the screws as you go, you can save yourself SIX SCREWS per room! WOW!"
Since they end up under the crown ... you don't need to remove them ;o)