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Discussion Forum

Crown Molding – “Open Ends”

Dave45 | Posted in General Discussion on August 20, 2006 04:08am

I’m putting up crown molding (4-5/8″) for a customer and have a question.   I’ll be dealing with “open” ends and I’m looking for some ideas for terminating them.

Neither the home owner nor I really like the typical “return” which looks a little like an arrow.  In other jobs, I’ve cut the “open” end of the crown square and filled the end with a small triangle of MDF.  When it’s filled and sanded, it looks like the crown is solid. 

Anyone have any other “tricks” for open ends?  Maybe some pictures? 

Thanks

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Replies

  1. User avater
    hammer1 | Aug 20, 2006 04:22pm | #1

    Generally, we miter the ends back. You can make it a simple 45 or use any combination of cuts. There are a couple of choices in the picture. There are some people who don't like mitered returns but they are the traditional way to stop a molding.

    Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

    1. Dave45 | Aug 20, 2006 04:58pm | #2

      Morning, Hammer -

      That double miter looks interesting - not quite as "pointy" - lol.  I'll mock it up and see what the customer thinks.

    2. scottbr | Aug 22, 2006 03:38am | #3

      Hammer, I like the look of the double mitre on the one return.  How did you hold them together, glue or pinned or both.

      1. DonCanDo | Aug 22, 2006 03:00pm | #5

        Whenever I have to do small returns (like the one on this double miter), I use contact cement.  I apply 2 thin coats to each piece before assembling allowing the glue to dry between coats.  2 coats works better than 1 because the glue is easily absorbed into the end grain.

        I've also used wood glue, but of course that requires clamping and waiting for the glue to dry and I just don't have enough clamps.

        -Don

        1. FlaCarpenter | Aug 26, 2006 02:23am | #16

          Try a hot glue gun next time. Sets within a second or two and is permanent. Watch your fingers though, burns like hell! ;-)

          1. ronbudgell | Aug 26, 2006 02:43am | #17

            Sta-Put spray adhesive is good, too.

            Ron

          2. User avater
            IMERC | Aug 26, 2006 02:49am | #18

            careful...

            the over spray can work into open grain and leave a film behind that will make staining a problem... 

             

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

            WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

            Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

      2. User avater
        hammer1 | Aug 22, 2006 08:04pm | #6

        Hi Scott.
        I'll tell you my mitered return secret if you don't tell anyone. Devcon Weldit all purpose adhesive. Apply generously, push together, hold a minute, voila'.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

        1. MikeSmith | Aug 22, 2006 09:53pm | #7

          hammer:  where did you buy Devcon Weldit ?.. i've never seen itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          1. User avater
            hammer1 | Aug 23, 2006 05:01am | #11

            Hi Mike, The Devcon is available at most any hardware store, there are some others that are very similar, almost like model glue, which might work. You can peel off the excess squeeze out with your fingers, once it has set up. Only takes a few minutes to set. I was very leery about it standing up for long without a pin but I have quite a few jobs that have lasted more than five years. I wouldn't use it for anything too large or structural but its easy for the light weight stuff. There are some isocyanurates(sp?) that you can use an accelerator on but end grain is so porous it's difficult to get a strong bond. These are very expensive and you can stick your fingers. I put a healthy amount of Weldit on one piece, push the pieces together and spread it around, open up and then just press together. It holds almost immediately. The manufacturer recommends a prime coat of Weldit, but I'm a rebel. Yellow glue and others sometimes will make the small return warp, because of the water. No water in the Devcon. If I can align the pieces nicely and press hard, there isn't a glue line. So far it hasn't damaged any finishes but I'm careful about being too messy. You can also move it a little or pull it open and start over, and it's waterproof. Great for crown returns over exterior windows.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

        2. scottbr | Aug 25, 2006 02:56am | #14

          Thanks,  I will have to try it, I have lots of mitres to do in our kitchen with several returns.

    3. FHB Editor
      JFink | Aug 22, 2006 10:00pm | #8

      That's a right nice little display hammer - do you use that as a visual for pitching jobs to the customer?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial

      Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator

      1. User avater
        hammer1 | Aug 23, 2006 05:28am | #12

        I had a job a few years ago, Justin. I thought it was a piece of cake. Just a single chair rail in a dining room and adjoining kitchen, couple hour job. There were three uncased openings that I had to stop at. I made a nice mitered return at each stop, left the bill on the counter, mission accomplished. That was until the lady of the house called crying. "How come you didn't cut the molding even with the opening?" I thought to myself, any hack can do that. After redoing that job, I filled a box with all kinds of samples of moldings, joints, and options of fitting. I thoroughly explain exactly what a mitered return, dado, lock joint, etc. is, and have a sample to show. It actually works some of the time!Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

        1. MikeSmith | Aug 23, 2006 06:08am | #13

          it's always a revelation to me about how other people have a completely different vision of what is going to be built

          nothing like a little show & tell to prevent those misunderstandingsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

  2. User avater
    Homewright | Aug 22, 2006 02:19pm | #4

    Sorry I don't have pictures but I've used what I call 'termination blocks' to let the crown die into.  Whatever style your crown, a built up block which stands proud of the crown profile 1/4" or so can do the trick.  I once did a room for a musician and carved the treble and cleft designs on the blocks where the crown terminated and it looked pretty cool.

  3. KevinH | Aug 22, 2006 11:27pm | #9

    Definitely do some head scratching and figure out how to do the mitered returns - They look a lot better...

    I do crown every two or three years so I have to re-learn it every time - My last attempt was an open area in a new house with floor to ceiling openings (lots of terminations) and a bowed projection (non-90 degree angles - ughhh).   We were able to figure it out and get an excellant result - and I'm just an architect!

    My buddy is literally a brain surgeon - If you want a good laugh or at least a good punch line - you should see the thought process of a brain surgeon and an architect figuring out crown molding... too funny. 

    We learned very quickly to keep a set of "templates" for the various cuts (inside 90, outside 90, inside 135, etc...) and that made setting up the saw a lot quicker.

    Good luck

    Sorry - just re-read the OP and realized this is not what they wanted anyway... Still proud of our work though.

     



    Edited 8/22/2006 4:30 pm ET by KevinH

    1. drywallpaul | Aug 23, 2006 03:21am | #10

      Ugh.....drywall returned windows.

      Nice job on the crown though.

      Paul

    2. maverick | Aug 25, 2006 03:41am | #15

      sorry man but that would'nt fly around here. I'd expect a little better from an archy

      1. KevinH | Aug 26, 2006 06:52pm | #19

        Believe me - I was none too thrilled about some of the details on that gig... What can I say - I have to work with what's there.  Nothing worse than a big new house with drywall window returns, open arches, and no trim in sight... Not one bit of character at all. 

        I would have loved to drop down the tops of the openings to allow the crown to be continuous around the room and avoid all the starts and stops.  Would've given some better definition to the rooms as well, but hey - everyone has a budget to work with.

         

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