Replies

1. 
   unTreatedwood | Mar 27, 2008 07:23pm | #1

   Several solutions available in this forum...my favorite is Gary Katz' dvd on advanced carpentry techniques where he goes into this in great detail.

   http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/cutting_crown_transitions.html

   "The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program"  -Ronald Reagan 

1. 
   reese | Mar 27, 2008 08:25pm | #2

   Molding must lie flat on the ceiling and part of the back of the moulding needs to be ripped away to accommodate the different angle (not 90) on the wall.

   See FH # 164 page 10.

1. 
   unTreatedwood | Apr 01, 2008 08:08pm | #18

   correct."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program"  -Ronald Reagan 

2. 
   Joe | Mar 27, 2008 11:26pm | #3

   pinko,

   It's really quite easy to do what you're asking if you use a transition piece. You can try doing like this: http://www.josephfusco.org/Articles/Crown_Moulding/rakecrown.html But it's a lot of work and in most cases not really necessary.

   http://www.josephfusco.org
   http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/27/2008 4:26 pm ET by Joe

1. 
   pinko | Mar 27, 2008 11:51pm | #4

   Interesting trigonometry, Joe. But why can't I use the same width horizontal crown using Katz's technique of ripping the top angle? Or are you essentially proposing the same thing as he? In any case, it seems like about twice the labor of a conventional crown install---is this the case?I do appreciate everyone's help.

1. 
   Joe | Mar 28, 2008 12:00am | #5

   pinko,I gave you the link as an alternative way of going about. Nowadays it's much easier to do it with a transition piece then go through all that my original article sets out.Gary's article is an excellent "how-to" to doing it with a transition piece. ;-)http://www.josephfusco.org
   http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/

1. 
   pinko | Mar 28, 2008 12:20am | #6

   Ahh...I got you. I think I realized that was what you were saying right after I posted the question to you! One more complication though...the vaulted rake ALSO transitions to a flat ceiling portion at the top of the room. Would I need another transition piece there or is that just treated as an inside corner? I'm still trying to wrap my mind around that one as I think about your and Garys' method...which I like a lot. Thanks for your help.

1. 
   Joe | Mar 28, 2008 01:23am | #7

   pinko,The flat spot at the top of the vault doesn't need a transition piece. The piece coming up the rake will just miter into the flat spot. The only reason you need a transition at the lower corner is because the wall turns in two direction, 90° in the x-y plan and "some angle up" in the z-axis.http://www.josephfusco.org
   http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/

   Edited 3/27/2008 6:24 pm ET by Joe

3. 
   Jeff_Clarke | Mar 28, 2008 08:41am | #8

   I think it looks really silly on a slope, especially when installed upside down as in the Katz photos.

   Jeff

1. 
   JoeBartok | Mar 28, 2008 04:19pm | #9

   It may be possible to fit the crown without the transition piece.

   Model of Octagon Roof by SBE Builders

   Octagon Roof Exterior Crown Molding Angles Development Calculators by SBE Builders

   Calculations for the Octagonal Roof in the link above

   Geometry for the Octagonal Roof in the link above

   Links to threads discussing rake crown molding. In some cases the rake is actually a "compound rake" ...

   Development Of Crown Molding Angles

   Polygon Rafter Tables

   Crown Vertical & Horizontal Planes Diagrams and math ... Compound Rake Crown Molding Theory

   Scroll down the following page. There are links to calculators and photos of the results ...

   SBE Builders Online Tools

   Joe Bartok

   Edited 3/28/2008 9:22 am ET by JoeBartok

   Edited 3/28/2008 9:32 am ET by JoeBartok

   Edited 3/28/2008 9:36 am ET by JoeBartok

1. 
   pinko | Mar 28, 2008 05:10pm | #14

   Thanks, Joe... Information OVERload, but I appreciate it. I've bookmarked the sites for perusal on my free time. I do think crown is a bit silly on vaulted ceilings, but, others have different views of course.

1. 
   JoeBartok | Mar 28, 2008 05:39pm | #15

   If you post your numbers I can do an example calculation using your figures.

   Spring Angle = ?

   Ceiling Slope (over/12) or Ceiling Slope Angle = ?

   And ... are we talking about gable ends? Or is this a "prow peak" or compound rake?

   And a caveat: if you look at the images of the models posted by Sim Ayers of SBE Builders, you will see that for some combinations of roof slope and spring angle the crown meets the ceiling at a pretty wicked angle. This means ripping the top of the molding to make it fit (or a case of caulking to fill the gaps). The numbers will be correct but the esthetics may leave something to be desired and it might be more pleasing to the eye to go with a transition piece. Edit ... some combinations of spring angle/roof slope angle are impossible to calc from the same reference plane and still keep the designated spring angle; the transition piece is a must in such a case.

   This is why I said it may be possible to get by without the transition piece - but we won't know that until we crunch the numbers and/or make some trial cuts.

    

    

   Joe Bartok

   Edited 3/28/2008 10:40 am ET by JoeBartok

   Edited 3/28/2008 12:41 pm ET by JoeBartok

   Edited 3/28/2008 12:41 pm ET by JoeBartok

   Edited 3/28/2008 1:49 pm ET by JoeBartok

2. 
   Joe | Mar 28, 2008 07:02pm | #16

   pinko,I have a pretty simple way of doing these types of crown. You can get a preview of it on my site.http://www.josephfusco.org
   http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/

1. 
   pinko | Mar 29, 2008 04:38am | #17

   Joe F...and Joe B. Thanks for all the help. I'll be taking another long look at your site, Joe F.. And Joe B, I'd send you the info if I had it, but I don't at the moment. The customer was/is still in the 'deciding' phase--which is where I came in, and still am. Fact is, I really don't think this job has the budget or "fit" for this sort of trim work, but I'll let the customer determine that. Nevertheless, I'm happy to learn the technique. One more detail: the ceiling planes are NOT flat, plumb, or square. The transition lines are also quite wavy due to old-school 'rough' framing. I'd just assumed to tell them it's 'not do-able' and would look like #### anyway, but I knew it was feasible. Whether it looked appealing or not is a matter of opinion. It's just that I tend to think my opinion is better ;)Anyway, thanks again to all for your help.

2. 
   Joe | Mar 28, 2008 04:19pm | #10

   Jeff,You do realize that's a matter of opinion. No matter what you say to a customer if they want it up the rake. . . As far a Gary's article, I've wondered to myself why the moulding was upside down as well, but then again that also seems to be a matter of opinion as well.http://www.josephfusco.org
   http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/

1. 
   Jeff_Clarke | Mar 28, 2008 04:34pm | #11

   I totally agree ... that opinions are like, well ...

   Jeff ;o)

1. 
   Joe | Mar 28, 2008 04:39pm | #12

   Jeff,You mean like. . . . belly buttons ;-)http://www.josephfusco.org
   http://joes-stuff1960.blogspot.com/

1. 
   Jeff_Clarke | Mar 28, 2008 04:41pm | #13

   Right!  Full of lint ...

    

   Jeff

4. 
   glsstep | Apr 02, 2008 02:50am | #19

   Here's a site that might be helpful. I saw it demo'd last weekend ay JLC live.
   http://www.cutncrown.com
   watch the video & I believe he demonstrated vaulted transitions. The product may seem a bit of a gimick but it makes the job easier & quicker.
   Good luck.