I have obtained some old growth, flat sawn pine boards, which are approximately 9 3/8″ wide by 1″ thick. They are cupped in the middle about 3/8″. I would like to use this wood for various projects like cabinetry, etc… Does anyone know of a way to flatten the boards? Are there sawing techniques that work best for this type of wood if it cannot be flatten?
Any help is much appreciated.
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Replies
Real light passes through a thickness planer. Got to go easy so the feed rollers don't flatten the board. Might add thin furring strips along the edges to prevent the boards from flattening. Or do it the antique way with a hand plane.
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"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks for the info.
Actually, I am trying to flatten the boards without reducing the thickness much. I would like to maintain 3/4" thick if possible. I ran a test board through the planner and it ended up 5/8" once flat. That is just a little too thin for my use.
Rip them down the middle, plane each half, joint the edges back square to the new face and glue it back together. Mark the ends well and pay attn. to re-glue as it was. Often , esp. with open grained wood, the joint all but disappears.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Edited 3/10/2009 4:02 pm ET by Sphere
"Real light passes through a thickness planer. "I like that real light too. The modern imitation light we get lately won't pass thru anything for beans!
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Face jointing would be best, if you can find a jointer that wide. A planer will help somewhat, but they tend to squish the board before planing, only to have it spring back when it exits.
Scott.
The easy way without reducing thickness is to lay the boards down on grass, damp if possible, cupped or U shape facing ground. As this acquires moisture and other dries out in sunlight, they will straighten out in a day or so.
Expert since 10 am.
Just what I was going to say - have done it many times!
I will give this a try on one of the sections.
Thank you.
If you lay the board in the grass til flat, then plane it, won't it return to the original cup when it dries again? Just curious, never heard of that.
First thing is to read the wood and ask it how it got that way. how was it stored, Which way do the growth rings run RE the way the cupping happens....
Then counter that effect if possible with reversing applications of moisture and heat.
What species and how is it you come to call it antique?
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First sentence says its pine.
Mabye the 'Adam Loves Eve' carved in it makes it antique?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The wood cups in the direction of the grain.
The wood is pine, but I'm not sure what type. It is very red after being planed. I called it antique for a lack of a better word. The wood came off of a family barn, which had the last addition done around 100 years ago
Thank you.
smell like turpentine when cut or sanded?
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Some of the wood does.
one of the southern long leaf pines
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I agree Piffin,
I am familiar with the look of modern southern yellow pine and white pine. This wood appears closer to southern yellow pine. This wood is out of a barn in the Ozarks of Arkansas, it looks similar to old wood I have seen in vernacular buildings in Louisiana and East Texas.
Take a look at the photo attachments and see what you think. The photos do not do justice to the true color. Also, I was wrong about the direction of the cup; it appears to go in the opposite direction of the growth rings.
Yep, that first pic sure looks like Heart Pine. Nasty stuff for splinters and resin crystalized in it the pores. Gunks up blades and can be a pain to get some finishes to to stick to.
I worked much of it and never did get the attraction that some folks have to it. Great for flooring, but not my choice for furniture and fine goods.
Made Furniture for a comp. in NC, Tiger Mountain Woodworks, and we did a lot of HP, made a huge trestle table for a customer and they had full sun in the room..little beads of resin kept leaching out, pushing finish off..hateful stuff. It also can get your sinuses running for cover when milled.
At least the splinters come out easy, they fester and puss in no time flat..LOL
have fun with it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Thanks for the info. I have to admit I like it for the look primarily. I have seen the beads of sap you are talking about on old rafters myself. These particular pieces seem to be very dry and I will wait to see if any sap comes to the surface. I wonder if the sap every fully crystalizes?
It does eventually turn to amber, but it takes a few hundred yrs..LOL Even then it melts in full sun and gets sticky, its the same rosin used on Violin bows. Heat makes it get tacky again.
Some oil based finishes with mineral spirits or turpintine ( btw, derived from pine sap) will remelt the resin and ya have a sticky non drying finish. I like to wax with Bri-Wax on raw H.P., its much easier to rejuvenate than almost anything else.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
All good to know.
That cupping is normall shinlkage tangential to growth rings, tho I do see some water staining too.
Anyways, I now agree that ripping and regluing is the way to get flat without having to plane too much meat off the thickness.BTW, I really wanted to see this because i work with a fair amt of eyullow and heart pine. Other wise I would have never waited out the half hour of download time for the overly large photo files. See if you can learn to use Irfanview or another photo image program to eidt and resize like this...It took me five minutes to resize and crop these and repost them, compared to the half hour download time to get them here. Keep in mind that not everyone has unlimited bandwidth and speed.For using this wood in furniture or woodworking, shellac is a good first sealer to keep pitch in, but if this is as old as you think, most of the resins are pretty stablized by now and less likely to bleed.I had the impression from some text that this had been a part of the barn, but it looks unused. It is nice enough, but is face sawn instead of quartered. That is why the cupping.
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Sorry about the size of the pics, I will see what I can do the next time I attach photos.
These photos do not accurately depict the real color, which it is a dark orange red, really beautiful. The narrow piece is one that I have sawn and planed from a board like the wider one shown. I appreciate your info on finishing this type of wood. I plan to take the entire barn down and reclim the wood.
It's worth while doing.
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All the lumber that God causes to grow has a purpose in this world. Some is meant to be fine furniture,like a Queen Anne Highboy some is meant to be plywood some to be timber frames and some are meant to be firewood. You have come across that special lumber meant to be CASKETS.
Think about it!! It is already curved (or cupped as some would say)so why spend all that money and time to straighten it!!
The thickness is perfect (not to thin and not to thick; just right)
It needs very little finishing to be ready to go... just clean it up with some MEK or thinner: Plane the edges to accent the curve, Do your glue ups. Sand it a bit, maybe pickle it for grain accents and a good wax and buff and it's ready for service.
No matter what the economics (good or bad) people die!! God reached down and gave you work to get through this mess take advantage of it. MAKE CASKETS....(Obama will thank you and so will the IRS)
I get the distinct feeling some people on this forum don't like pine. I find it quite beautiful and it rings like a bell. You see a casket, I see a musical instrument. I suppose you could say one man's trash is another man's treasure.
Not sure if it would work on heartpine, but I've heard that kiln drying to a certain temperature(?) will "set" the sap, cause it to crystallize for good.Also, I don't see why you couldn't easily use some different sized strips of wood or dowels in the middle of the cup and run them through the planer in one piece. Just straightedge across the board and tack or hot glue or tape the appropriate size strip in there. Or combination of strips - knock some off with a hand plane if you want to. soft wood strip is better. Strip doesn't have to be perfect size (a hair bigger is better). It ain't like the boards gonna "woble" in the planer and come out crooked. I do it all the time, cause I hate wasting thickness. Seems a lot faster then regluing. If you do rip and reglue, just try it on one board first - you'll see what I mean.edit: Oops - I see you're wanting 3/4" material out of 1" boards that have a 3/8" cup. Guess I jumped the gun, probably have to rip and glue. Man, I've been cranky lately - must be the economy, or Obama, or....
Edited 3/18/2009 11:43 pm ET by back2work
Thanks for the info. This wood is very old and I believe the sap has already crystallized.
I did rip one board, planed it, cut straight the edges and glued it back together. Now all I have to do and plane it again- whew! You're right it is quite a bit of work.
I am not sure I understand the method you describe with the dowel in the cupped part of the board. Like you, I want to preserve wood thickness, but does your method flatten the wood eventually, or does the wood remain cupped?
The strip in the middle does take the cup out. Plane the high middle til it's relatively flat, then flip over, take strip out, and plane off the 2 high edges. You just want a flat (no cup) side to ride on the planer bed.But you'll only get 5/8"(or a hair less) out of 1" if it has a 3/8" cup. I figured you were trying to get 3/4" thickness.
Ah, I see what you mean now. I believe you are correct in your assumption about the thickness. By ripping the wood, I have been able to maintain 3/4"; however, I have not done my final planing after the glue up, so I stand to lose more wood. When it is all said and done, I will likely end up with 5/8" to 11/16".
Thanks for your help.
well, if you rip and reglue you should be able to keep it quite a bit thicker I would think. Sounds like I can't make up my own mind now. lol
Didn't resize - This is what I mean....
The drawing makes it perfectly clear, thanks. BTW, what program are you using?
El Cheepo Home Design. lol Just a $50 program with some CAD capabilities. Better Homes & Gardens, I think?
Edited 3/19/2009 4:12 pm ET by back2work
Yeah, the CAD programs can really be expensive. I think AutoCAD with Desk Top is 4 to 5K and Revit is like $7500. Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!
The one I use is $995.
Jeff
""The modern imitation light we get lately won't pass thru anything for beans!"" ""....smell like turpentine when ...."" You been drinking that "Bud Light" agin?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
LOL, Haven't felt like drinking lately.
Still have the same bottle I bought in early December.
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