This is a small but very unique deck designed to follow the curves of the backyard water garden. After we set the pier blocks and beam runs at grade we fastened the first curved walkway along the pond to the beam.
“Rather be a hammer than a nail”
Bob
This time-tested installation method for flangeless windows ensures smooth operation and provides air, water, and vapor control.
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Replies
We had to lay plastic on the pond to catch our treated sawdust. This pond has Lots of fish.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here is Marty marking and cutting the rim blocks for the radius cuts."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here are some shots of the curved bridge to the island and some of the framing curves before we start bending fascia.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
This radius is going to be a little tight to bend facia on. The Bridge is bolted to the deck. We had to rip a 1/4" piece of wood out of a 2x4 to mirror our curve for the next step. "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob: Your work demands a book. Your framing is always so neat, orderly, and very secure. That is why you get all those neat projects...
Thanks Stan, But I've got to say your stairs don't look like they're going anywhere after you install them either. Your work is always "a step above the rest."
Thanks for following along."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I think the two of you should be putting out books of your work. The question is whether the books would go under construction or art.
Another great deck! I can't get enough of these pics....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
Thanks Jeff, Maybee some day when I'm too old to swing a hammer I'll write a book on fun ways to build a deck..."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Looks like a very cool project.
I'd love to spend a little time building decks with you.
LOL You've got too many other things on your mind than to build decks with me.View Image
Here is a shot of the finished jobView Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob,
Great job as usual. I am trying to get more into the deck business here (NYC) but it can be a tough sell to do it right. Here, decks are a hot topic after the one in Queens collapsed injuring and killing people. Amazingly though, it is still hard to get people to pay the price for an architect's drawings and permits. I'm always outbid (obviously) by those willing to do it without the proper plans. Anyway, I look forward to seeing the rest of the deck. Is the bridge attached to the ground at all on the side opposite where it is bolted to the deck?
Richie
Edit: I forgot to ask, what kind of auger and cement mixer do you have? I was looking at a two person digger and the Kushlan 600W 6 cu ft mixer. I thought I saw the smaller Kushlan in one of your pics. If so, how do you like it? Most of our footings are 10 or 12 in sonotubes 42 inches down. I'd like a mixer that can mix enough to fill at least one conmpletely per mix.
Thanks again.
Edited 11/22/2003 10:16:38 AM ET by RICHIE921
Edited 11/22/2003 10:29:18 AM ET by RICHIE921
I honestly don't know how you would attach a deck to a brick building to make it a SAFE structure unless you could through bolt the ledger to a rim on the back side (or interior side)of the brick . Your building department there would give you the specifics on their recomendations.
You need to tell your prospective clients that the permits and fees are to protect them as a homeowner and to eliminate cheep unsafe building practices that cost lives.They will understand the added expense.If they don't you don't want to work for them anyway.
That little Kushlan I have is 1 1/2 yard 350W that only mixes 2-80# or 3-60# bags at a time. I had them install a 3/4 horse motor because the rental yards only use a 1/4 HP and it hardly mixes one bag.
I bought it for its portability and the fact that it wheels around and dumps easily from footing to footing. It won't fill a Sono tube though. Better to order that mix from a cement company anyway and just wheel it to the back.
The bridge is just setting on the rock on the little island and doesn't move.
Thanks for the compliments,
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Nice work Bob.
In that one pic it looks like your help is going for his lunch!
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
LOL -Mr T
That was Marty skimming nail gun shrapnel from the pond. You know, that plastic that hits you in the face from nail sleeves when you fire your nail gun."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Hats off to you Bob. Sharp stuff. That's got to be way more fun than little rectangles."The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
bob... nice work... what did you cut your bridge stringers out of ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The bridge stringers were cut out of a 12' 2x12. I divide it in half, put a nail on the top and at the bottom of each at 6' then bend a 1/4" piece of wood , scribe the curve and cut it with a worm drive."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks Rodger, yes, way more fun. Pretty cold out there today though."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Looks like a very interesting project Bob, ......... you seem to have a knack for finding customers with interesting/unusual projects . Like the victorian you were working on this spring with the wraparound deck. as usual your work looks great.
Mark
Mark, I really like decks that are a little different than the plain cookie cutter squares that go on the backs of most houses. This little deck will take a little more time to do but will be ALOT more fun than just banging out a basic rectangle."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Pro-Dek,
You do amazing work! I'm telling you, that is great.
Is that a Bigfoot I see the pic of cutting off the joists? I just bought a Big Boy for cutting rafters and beams and that is one mean machine. It's really a great product.
Here is a pick from today cutting rafters.
Thanks Tim,
Man, That BigBoy looks like a killer saw. I want one for cutting off my 6x6 arbor posts. I have to make two cuts with the Bigfoot, but it is a great saw for cutting 4x beams and 3x stair treads and stringers.
The BigBoy is my next saw. You better drop that thing in the mud a couple of times, It looks too new..... :-) "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Pro
Very nice work, and if you get tired you can cast your pole out and catch your lunch.
Doug
You never fail to impress me. Outstanding. Not only for the quality of work but the quality of Client. I learn so much from your photos and am caught mumbling by my GF saying things like wow amd how come I never thought of that or how elegant. Bastard! I am so envious.
One question. Which chop saw stand do you have? Have you tried any others? Would you buy it again or do you have another favorite "next one"?
Okay, that's more than one question.
Great work. congrats!
F
Thanks Frankie,
I like the old Dewalt chop saw stand because it sets on the mud pretty well and is easy to transport.
Their new stand is OK but doesn't have the extensions like the old ones.
I have two of them and they should last me till I retire.
Here is a shot of the stand with the extension............
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 11/23/2003 2:45:03 AM ET by Pro-Dek
hard to see a chop stand with all that scenery in the way...
Bob: There is no place to land.....You have to at least clear that deck off.
Hey....again....nice work....
LOL Stan , I would only clear the deck for you, on second thought, doesn't that whirly bird of yours blow most of the debris off of decks?View Image
Here is a shot of how we mark the joists for the upper deck..........
The upper deck mirrors the lower deckView Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
That's some you set the standards work Bob.
At first I thought it was a walk way but wasn't sure. Now I see.
What is the transistion to be between your work and the exsisting CC steps?
The bridge is cool.. Yur the man...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
The transistion between the concrete and the deck should be fairly smooth. I framed to the existing pad 1" down so when we deck it should almost be flush. It won't be totaly flush because the concrete slopes away from the house.
I'll post close ups of the transistion after we deck it...View ImageView Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Here we are blocking the lower deck for diagonal decking."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Should start decking tomorrow after we run the wire for the lights. This is the the Trex facia installed.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Ah don't Pro Dek, either you are turning into a well rounded builder or your getting kinky on us bending all that stuff. At any rate, awesome project, shows off your talent for creativity and engineering.
Thanks Armin, That's a complement coming from you.
Now I know why you and Stan have so much fun with curved stairs."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Now I know why you and Stan have so much fun with curved stairs.
We build round stuff because we don't know how to use a square.
Armin: I am asked occasionally how I got started doing curved stairways. I always tell them that I cant build anything straight,..and its just natural of me to make something crooked.
Bob - Awesome work as usual.
You never fail to give me ideas when I look at your work.
Do you find that the Trex does curves well? It looks like the back cuts work out pretty well, do you have a standard spacing of those back cuts? Do you keep the spacing constant through the entire length you are bending?
Keep em' coming they are awesome.
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
Steve, normally I don't back cut Trex but this is a 3' radius on the top step and a six foot radius on the bottom. It still has to be heated in this cold weather and clamped slowly so it doesn't break.
When back cuting your kerf spacing is about 1"-2" unless it is really tight like 3' then cut it about every 1/2"
It makes a mountian of Trex dust.........."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks Bob.
Will that Trex weather to a gray similar to the Cedar?
About how many days will a deck like that take your crew?
Looks awesome. I hope your client likes it as much as everyone here does.
SJKnow a little about alot and alot about little.
Steve ,
The Trex will lighten but not grey.You are seeing this in "Real Time" . It will take us about 2 1/2 - 3 weeks. Today we are about 1/2 way done.
This is all the decking we got put down today."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Maybe you'd get more done if you put down the camera and helped out!
Nice looking deck. Thanks for the pictures.
LOL! Wes, I do spend a little too much time with the cameraView Image
But then again I may use them down the road to write a deck book or something.
The pictures are also a good reference for me when I get a little older and I start forgetting how to do some of this stuff.
Hey! anyone know why the mill has to write in crayon how many feet long a board is? We had about 30 of these today and they are a real pain to clean off.View ImageView Image
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 11/27/2003 12:36:42 AM ET by Pro-Dek
Do an IQ check on the mill's help....LOL
Wouldn't want a 14 footer going out with a 12. There has to be some for the help to tell the difference.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Cool Deck Bob! I can't wait to see what it looks like when it's done. I also can't wait to see how you all build railings to go along all those curves... :^)
Matt
Thanks matt,
No railings on this deck, just life jackets and fishing polesView Image
We are building a bench between the arbor that will have a back rest which will be fun and different. A gate will hide the heat pump in the corner.
I'll post more Monday.
Happy Thanksgiving!View ImageView Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
The local lumber yard (whose prices must include gold leaf or something), was marking their boards on the face with wax crayon as well until they took so much flack they started marking the ends which is easier to deal with.
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
All decked out! Tomorrow we build the arbor, coffee table , and hook up the lights.View ImageView Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I've really enjoyed this thread...neat stuff, man!
A couple dumb unrelated questions...
Is that pond a self circulating deal? What part of the country are you in, NW? And what are the units that look like lights/sprinklers?? Hard to imagine the pond needs watering, but perhaps the plants around it do. Intersting combo units...any info on them?
Post a night shot with the lights on when you get finished and a chance! I have a client that I need to find suitable lights for to go on a mahogony deck I did. So far she hasn't liked anything she's seen.
( I used the Eb Ty fastener system...couldn't get under the deck, and didn't want to see any fasteners. They work, but it wasn't easy... any experience of thoughts on them?)
Thanks!Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Yes, this project is in the NW -- seattle area.
The sprinklers are referred to as "scarecrows". The unit underneath the sprinkler head is a motion detector -- battery operated w/a sensitivity selector (rheostat). Any motion, "across the pond", triggers the water. The sprinkler is a standard "rainbird" type. These were developed originally to keep deer away from gardens or other areas they might browse where not wanted.
The pond is entirely self sustaining (with a little help from electrons & bacteria). At the end near the wooden fence is a skimmer w/two submersible circulating pumps (requiring electrons). This skimmer unit has a drain pipe which is shunted to the woods behind the pond. The skimmer also has a float valve which opens when the water level drops (it's really just a huge toilet tank).
Water is drawn through the skimmer & pumped to the waterfall at the other end. The container creating the waterfall is filled w/filtering material on which bacteria cluster & grow. The combination of plants & bacteria consume the nutrients that contribute to algae growth thus keeping that pesky plant under control. The bacteria also consume the koi scat.
Check out http://www.russellwatergardens.com/ for the full story.
Bob - Looks awesome, thanks for showing us the finished deck. I will have to looks some more to take it all in when I have some time.
Keep up the awesome posts.
Thanks
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
Awsome work as usual. Right out of Fine Homebuilding Magazine.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Wow No Thuumms, you really know your Ponds, I'm guessing you are really the homeowner in disguiseView Image View Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Or the owner of Russell Water Gardens... Who did the install?
That back yard is a haven of rest for which you have provided the most exquisite stage. I'm with CAG, best deck post from you yet, and that's a very high achievement.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Thanks Kevin, Russel water gardens did put in the water garden. I was amazed when the homeowner said they dug it all out by hand. View Image
It's a great environment to work by listening to the water and birds.
Thanks for the compliments.............View Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
The simplicity in the decks form make it looks perfect in that location, I think this is my personal favorite of your deck threads.
Bob, beautiful job as usual! I like the contrast of the runs between upper and lower sections, it keeps it visually interesting and makes it almost impossible for somebody to not notice the step down. Just 1 Q: How much of an angle did you lean the bench back, and how's it feel?
Mike
Mike, the bench is 18" finished height in front and 17" in back. The backrest leans back only about 5 degrees. Very comfortable. You can get even fancier by cutting curves in the bottom framing like an Adirondack chair, but then you could never get out of the chair.View Image
Here is a shot of the finished bench..............
View Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob-
Beautiful job, as always. Question for you- how many manhours do you have into that project? Actually two questions- given that many of your projects appear to be kinda "unique" or first-runs, how do you do you estimating? Pad and paper? Spreadsheet? Canned Program?
Just curious from an estimator's perspective.
Bob
Bob, Over the years I have learned how much to charge per square foot , but It took breaking even on some jobs and making more on others. I've never been in this business to get rich, just to make a comfortable living for me and my sons and stay in business after all the expenses and taxes.
I charge a different square foot price for different elevations, higher costing more. Square foot for benches and stairs. Lineal foot pricing for railing, fascia, arbors, skirting,etc.
I did not charge enough for this job because of the complexities of the footings, beam runs, and framing. Did I learn to charge more for the next job? Maybe a little, but some customers are more pleasant to work for so you don't have to make a killing on profit, because you know they will be a great referral for future business.
This Particular customer is having all their neighbors and friends over for a "Nogger" next week and asked me to be there with business cards and flyers.
This Summer the Pond people are having a "Parade of Ponds" which will bring in more prospective clients. Again, My customer asked me if there was anything they could do to help promote my business.
The list goes on and my future clients ask me if all my referrals are "family".
No, but they make me feel like Family after I'm done.
Is this a practical business philosophy? Well lets just say I works for me.
I use a 3D cad program to show my customer what each component of the deck will cost . I do my take out by hand and my labor is figured by man hours.
My next customer asked me if I would throw in the lighting and the skirting. I told him I don't own a lumber yard nor do I own a lighting company so no I will charge you $1500. for the skirting and $1350. for the lighting............He said I understand completely.
As long as you are up front with customers I think they appreciate your candor and look forward to an honest resolve to their new project.
I hope this helps a little.
Thanks for following along............."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob-
The info on your estimating definitely helps. It's as I suspected- SF pricing for decks, LF for rails, etc. I'm assuming you've got to just make an educated swag at the truly unique stuff like the curves and the bridges.
Again, great work, and thanks for the input.
Bob
No Problem Bob,
Just be careful on your cost plus pricing of new decking components. Railing, for instance can be anywhere from $25-$55 a linial foot depending on materials and labor to install it. Stainless tube rails being the most expensive.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob, as always great work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just got done looking at all 78 posts (slow
speed internet)and it was worth it. I personally appreciate you sharing with us.
Thanks again, and keep up the GREAT WORK!
Thanks butch, and thanks for taking the time to read all the posts. This was a fun project. Now off to another Trex deck.
Have a great day! "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
bob... are you a Trex Pro Contractor ?... were you ever in the Trex Builder's Club ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike- Yes I'm a TrexPro, for those of you that are unaware of that program, It just means you have successfully completed their installation guidelines program and have shown them a deck you have made out of Trex.
I've never been in the Trex builders club, because I'm not aware of one.
I am currently participating in the "Trex Rewards Program" which offers you 20 points for every linear foot you buy.
Is that what you are referring to?"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
indeed.. i was a Trex Builder before the Trex Pro program got started... took me some doing to transfer my points....the old program was 10 points / lf
good program.....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Bob:
As always, your work is superb, but more importantly, you constantly bring to fruition the high end projects. What impresses me, is that you have identified your business niche, and worked your way to the top of that market segment. That's what makes fine home building - projects with vision and the $ to back it.Matt
Thanks for the compliments Matt.
I think another reason that quality shows through a persons work is the fact that they really enjoy their job.
Sure, we all have days that we would rather stay home, for me that would be when we dig for footings and stair landings, but it is important that those are in the right place.Or how about clean up after the job is done? That's fun, Not........
The reward is we get past all of that eventually and on to the areas we truly enjoy.
Plus we get the praise from yet another satisfied customer.
Thanks for following along...... "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob: You hit the nail on the head about enjoying your job. It is very apparent with you that you enjoy your work..and this raises your standard..,,which then gets you these higher end jobs. These jobs just offer further challenges and exposure to keep you at the top of the deck builders.
It reminds me years ago when someone commented .."You act like you enjoy your work".. I just replied back without thinking.."Its not an act". They paused for a second, and then said..."That was a good answer". It was a simple...but honest answer.... :)
Thanks Bob. :)
Mike
gorgeous. !
.. now if you can just make them take their shoes off when they walk on itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Mike, I'll post the finished job tomorrow. We did the lattice, arbor, step lights plant stands, bird feeder post and clean up today, but I still have a days worth of clean-up and hooking up the transfomer and bench lights.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Bob: You have to be one satisfied guy producing such nice work. Your decks are a step above the rest.
Thanks Stan, I do get a great feeling of satisfaction, especially when the homeowner comes out and gives me a hug this morning because she is so excited about her new deck.View Image
It is great to be employed by people that truly appreciate your work.
More pictures to follow.View Image
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 12/4/2003 10:26:51 AM ET by Pro-Dek
Damn that's nice. When you post a thread like this, I start thinking, where can I roll something like that into a design! Do you do the design of them, too? Nice work! I have a house in AZ that needs something like a combo of this and stuff from the pergola thread to finish it off. These threads are inspiring. You thinkin' of moving near Phoenix any time soon?!?! Ha ha ha.
Thanks Cloud, Yes I show my customer a 3D CAD drawing of each project before I build it. It is a great tool for people that have a hard time visualizing their project from a topical drawing.
I didn't see many decks in Arizona last time I was there. I'm thinking it would be too good a hiding place for snakes and scorpions.View Image
Thanks for following along............View Image
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 11/25/2003 11:49:46 AM ET by Pro-Dek
Hey Pro-Dek, is that a Ridgid contractors table saw in that picture behind the guys? If so, what do you think of it?
Barney
Yes Barney that is a Ridgid Saw and I really like how portable it is. It has a great folding and rolling stand and makes great cuts out in the field."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks for the information. I'm looking for a good portable table saw.
On another note, I've been posting/reading in here for almost a month now and have quickly come to appreciate the excellent workmanship of your projects. The pictures are great. I look forward to seeing more pictures in the future.
Thanks,Barney
Barney , Last year there was a review in the FHB mag that rated Ridgid the best. That is why I bought it.
Now I'm no expert but over the years I have owen and used Craftsman, Makita, and Dewalt portable table saws and I think that out of those Ridgid is the best.
Good luck and have fun makin sawdust...........View Image View Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Thanks for the advice. I'll have to look back through my issues. I'm a long time subscriber to the magazine. I just happen to come upon the forum through the web page.
As for Ridgid, I just bought the Ridgid 12" Compound miter saw a love it.
Thanks,Barney
Pro-Dek
I always enjoy photos of your work, keep them coming!
I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
Thanks Manroot, and I will keep the pictures coming, otherwise my wife will make me do the dishes.............:-)"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Pretty cold here today. The first piece of fascia I back cut broke when we tried to bend it. Here is how I remedied the cold.
12" Sono tube, Re-Bar, And a little heat..............View Image
Maybe a little too much heat..........The Trex started to burn at one endView Image
Here is a shot of our little furnace....View Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Remember some time back I asked about bending Trex? I used a slit piece of 12" green (sch 80) pvc and hot water.
Soaked the pieces in the hot water and then removed them with hay bale hooks, three people and placed them in a mold till cool. A few sticks I took down to 8.5' radius. The others were a 10' radius.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I'm designing an oven now, but the hot water is interesting. Did you just soak the pieces, and how did you get the water to 140 degrees (per Trex)?Nick
140 is when the stuff goes plastic...
electric imersion water heater and a small zone pump...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Now that looks like something McGuiver would do! But seriously...do you always kerf the back side for bends? When I used it on my deck it seemed pretty flexible on it's own, but I didn't do any curved work. I've also seen it bent for decking, I can't imagine you would kerf the back side then. About how tight of a radius can you get before you have to start heating/kerfing est?
Just curious what you think, I would like to try some curved work next time I use it.I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!
We only need to Back cut or Kerf this Trex radius because it is 6' and 3' which is really tight.
Now here is a new field tool designed by my son called the "Slide n Scribe"
(Patent Pending).....
I should enter this one in the post "tools for under $20"
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob