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Who has framed a curved stairway? It is not a freestanding, there will be a curved wall up to the stair, then open railing. Where can I find good details of the framing? How are the treads supported? Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks, John
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Who has framed a curved stairway? It is not a freestanding, there will be a curved wall up to the stair, then open railing. Where can I find good details of the framing? How are the treads supported? Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks, John
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Replies
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John,
Did you search this site first?
There's enough info about this topic to fill up your living room a couple of times, and tons of pictures to go along with it.
*John when you say " It is not a freestanding, there will be a curved wall up to the stair" do you mean something that it looks like the JPG below but built without the integral stringers that are the standard structural part of a standard curved staircase? View Image ----click to open a larger view in a new windowIn other words you would like to build the stairs with the 2x4 walls supporting the treads and risers rather than a pair of stringers???I’m not so sure that a good idea at all. While we do design and fabricate curved stairs and railings my opinion may be partisan but I think to attempt to build a curved stair where the supporting structure is standard framing with no real stringers or carriage is riddled with quality and finish problems most notably "squeaks and creaks".I do know that it can be done the way I think you are describing because I have done curved stairs that way but that was when we were building theatrical scenery. Essentially you need to build a series of truncated pie shaped platforms for each step and connect them together one after another. Sounds easy enough but there is a huge difference between theatrical scenery where it only has to look (and sound) good from 15’ away and has a limited "shelf life" to installing stairs in the intimate environment of someone’s home. Besides one of the finish details that you would have to consider after the fact is that of trim. The stringer or carriage of a curved stair also functions as a "skirt board" there by taking care of that detail for you. Adding a curved skirt board after your stairs are installed is not an easy task to layout to the concave side of a wall much less install it cleanly. I think in the short run it is just as economical and a lot easier to order and install a curved stair from a curved stair shop and in the long run it will be a lot cheaper because you wont be handling call backs for "squeaks and creaks".You also make mention of an "open railing" too. By that I’m assuming you also mean something like that in the photograph above in that you would have a balustrade of pickets and spindles with a rail instead of a solid parapet/knee wall type of rail? For what it’s worth I think the fabrication of curved stairs is relatively easy in comparison to the fabrication of the helical curved handrail that goes with it. From this railing fabricator’s point of view it’s a hell of a lot easier to fabricate the railing at the same time that the stair is being fabricated than to fabricate a helical rail to fit an "as built" stair. I can say that because the above photograph is a "before" shot of a project we just completed yesterday that I found particularly difficult for a couple of reasons. I thought I’d start a discussion here to see what strategies the other stairbuilders here would have as to how to approach the project. As a preview of what I’ll ask about in that discussion that I’ll create later on this evening the oak rail and balusters in the photograph were to removed and replaced with tapered patinized steel balusters with a brass bulbous and Honduran mahogany newels and top rail. Can you tell us a little bit more about what kind of balustrade and railing were you thinking about John?In short John if your looking for a low tech or cheaper way to accomplish a curved staircase I really don’t think there is one. If it’s some other design issue entirely then I’m just not understanding your question I guess. Anyway best of luck.
*Yes it is to look like the photo you sent. And I had imagined the treads to be a series of truncated pie shaped platforms with each platform being supported by wall framing. So the inside radius would be a series of short wall segments. But then the outer radius would intersect the wall, but blocking would be a nightmare not to mention the skirt board. I looked at photos of stairs built by Stan Foster in the group. I think his method is the best. Laminating stringers against the temp. framed wall. I suppose after several lams up to around 3" or so he cuts in the treads so they have something to sit on. Yes I was hoping for a low tech solution. The home is of lower end quality. Thanks for you help.
*John: I build curved sairway and never use a center stringer. The treads and risers are mortised into the wall stringer and wedged in place. The risers are pocket screwed and glued to the treads. This gives the riser an I-beam effect. Here is a walk under stairway that has no support at all on the inside stringer except its own intergrity. If this had a wall under it, the inside stringer basically is just cosmetic. The stairs would not even need the stringer.
*Jerrald: Nice looking stairway you posted.
*John: Heres a stairway designed to have a wall under it. Even though there is no wall under it here, I could still walk up it with it only flexing about 1/4 inch. I stood under it and watched a 200 pounder go up it.
*Thats very nice looking Stan. What do you use for stringers & treads? Are you in the Northwest?
*John: Thanks....If the stringers are paint grade, I laminate the face laminate over luan laminates. If its stained, then the face laminate is whatever species they want. The treads are typically 5/4 oak, hickory, cherry etc. I always use solid treads and I do not use those false tread and riser caps.
*I recently did a 180º curved stairway with a radius bearing 2x wall below. The stair turned out right, but the process was difficult to control. You will be making hundreds of measurements and cuts, and there will be much picking up and putting down of the 2 or 3 levels you will be tripping over. I used a torpedo, and 2,3,4 and 6 foot levels. Jigsaw, recipro, circular, table, chop saws. Used damn near every tool I know how to use. Driver drill, power plane... musta been some others.Turned out nice, no squeaks, consistent, plumb. Had to bevel cut the studs to minimize the break of the studs into the arc.
*Well ya know what John I was searching through my JLC CD-ROM this afternoon and low and behold I accidentally came across an article that was about "Framing" a Radiused Stair. While I still don’t like the technique at all for the same reasons that I mentioned above it is a good article on using that truncated pie shaped platform technique and it would seem to answer your original questions regarding: "Where can I find good details of the framing?" and "How are the treads supported?". If you have that JLC CD-ROM set the article is entitled FRAMING A RADIUS STAIR GET THE LAYOUT RIGHT BY ROBERT THOMPSON and it’s in from the February 93 issue of the magazine. It’s also available from the new JLC site for $5.00 in a PDF file. (http://www.jlconline.com --Click on the research tab and search for it that way. I’ll also attach the URL to this link Framing A Radiused Stair to give you the URL right now only I’ve noticed since they are still working on new E-commerce version of the site the URLs sometimes change day to day so it may not link correctly in a day or two.) I still think that Stan's (and my preferred method) of building a curved staircase and then installing it is far better technique but I’ll always remain open to consider other possibilities so the article was still interesting to me in that regard. The guy who wrote the article says he’s framed 40 or 50 stairs that way and nathan says he just did one that way too I still feel they would be prone to squeaks. The real real question with squeaks is not does it squeak or not when you’ve just installed it (hell, it had better not) but does it squeak after it’s been through a heating season cycle or two?