I’m doing a remodel at the moment and the owner wants a custom tub. By custom I mean constructed of tile in a non-standard shape. I think this would be done like a shower pan; framed, hot mopped, mudded and tiled, but I’m not sure. If one were to frame a curvy shape would strips of something bendable like Italian poplar ply be the material of choice? (I suspect that ribs, as in a boat, would be the easiest method of doing the frame in wood.) Are there other alternatives? Any one out there with experience at this? How about where to research options? Thanks, Tom
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
This spray-foam sealant from Great Stuff offers mess-free, 6-in. coverage.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
how about in a church ,like a baptism tub , that might help in both construction and drainage
???... not sure what you mean. I don't ever go to church, if that clarifies anything.
Here is a couple of links. You are talking about building a Roman tub.
http://www.ctioa.org/reports/fr65.html
http://www.ctioa.org/reports/fr32.html
Here is a nice google image;
View Image
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Thanks Mike. This Roman tub literature describes what is pretty much the standard for shower/tub enclosures here in Norcal. What I'm really wondering about is doing something like an oval or even curvier.
That'd be tough to frame in wood and the concrete option would require more structural stuff than I want to get into. (The entire house is on a pier and grade beam foundation so adding support is a non trivial issue). I can imagine how to frame it in wood, then going the membrane/thickset route but it would be very labor intensive. I'm wondering if there are other ways of going about constructing such a tub and, if not, whether there's a more efficient way to frame it that I may be unaware of.
When you want to build a tub and have curves the big typical tile won't work.
You can use flat tile in the large areas but for the curves you need smaller tiles.
I knew a guy that did these out of tiles from small places that made tile.
Any place that makes tiles has a lot of rejects. There are piles of rejects.
He would take the client there and start going through the piles. After a while the client would collect certain colors and that was the theme.
The curved areas were made with small broken tiles. It is called mosaic tile.
You can also do the mosaic in paterns. Waves are common.
Those little glass tiles that come in sheets will work fine. The last house I built had a pool done completely in those things. (Pretty pricey). What I'm really wondering about is the easiest way to frame this thing, or provide backing for the mortar bed anyway.
The sheets of tiles work fine. The guy I knew was more of an artist type so pick his own tile was important to him.
Hey Tom.
Build it like a swimming pool or inside of a boat. Series of ribs and span over them with expanded metal. Cover with fine concrete, waterproof and tile.
This is the simple outline but you get the idea.
I think I would find a tub the shape I want and then tile it, issues with drains and waterproofing etc.
I was wondering about expanded metal for the backing. Is that typical of the type of project I'm thinking of? How does it go, metal, mortar, water proofing, more mortar for tile bed? I've never seen it done that way, that's why I'm asking.
Pools are a little different what with the gunnite and all not to mention the built in backing. Also, something along the lines of a real pool gets into the weight issues.
I might be wrong but i think you have it right. the last mortar bed would go over the water proofing. Expanded metal would work. The last layer would have to be thick enough to have some integrity of it's own.
With the layering you could sneak up on the final shape a bit. sometimes shapes like that have to evolve while you are doing them.
I saw pics of a free form spiral staircase in Italy that was done completely out of mortar.
The structure for the mortar was tree branches lashed together. They had enough mortar on there that it didn't need the branches after it was built. It was stunning.
It might have been in fine home building. Can't remember where.
There was an Italian name for the technique. After walls were built you could plaster them, fresco them, or put a mosaic on them.
Edited 12/31/2008 12:04 am ET by popawheelie
Take a look at Schulter for roman tub applications using the Kerdi membrane.they also make a roman tub drain.
I'm going to check out the expanded metal option with the building department. I can see this technique being relatively easy.
I was thinking the same thing. Take an existing tub and glue on tiles.
I was thinking glass tiles with the white of the tub under them.
If you had some lighting above it i think it would just be brilliant when the light hit it.
I see no one has mentioned fiberglass. Frame it, plywood, then fiberglass for structure and waterproofing, then tile over it with thinset.
You still have to frame when using fiberglass which would require solid backing. As I see it the framing part is the problem. Glassing that would be pretty easy though, once the frame issue is addressed. However, I'd be concerned about using thin set on fiberglass.
carve/shape it out of dense foam... then fiberglass.. or mesh & mud... then tile...
shouldn't be hard
p
That's a thought. Essentially surfboard technology. I wonder if that would fly with the building department.
the foam would be doing little if anything other than adding insulation to keep the water warm... it'd just be there to create the form... then with layers of a portland sand mix and (i'd use the same poly mesh that we use in the base stucco mix) and maybe add fiber ... then coat with one of the liquid "show pan" materials and tile.... i don't think it'd be hard to build it up to where you had a 3/4" concrete shell... boat if you will
p
I'm thinking expanded metal lathe on wood frame would be more sound, structurally speaking. I'm going to have to speak to the building department on the limitations. Somehow I think they're going to want some input on this, being as it's permitted and all.
I'm wondering what the cost is going to be. This has to be a perfect prototype.
I'm guessing around $ 20,000 by the time your done!
And if you do do this, we better see lots of pictures too! No pressure! lol.
Just off the top of my head I don't see this thing getting near 20 grand. I'm figureing I can frame it in a day, lathe it the next, a day for mud, $500 or so for hot mop, another day for thick set, then tile, (which will take some doing). Plumbing over all will take a couple of days and the cost of Grohe fixtures is up there but that really doesn't change, custom or no. Of course everything always takes more time than you think and there's the running around. Cost of the tile is unknown and can be a big factor. It'll certainly be over 10 but not by a whole lot, I'm guessing.
sounds like your tub is horizontel ,could you make it verticel
We actually thought about that, (something Japanese style), but it's necessarily a type of thing you can also use for bathing kids.
I know it sounds alot, but this kind of thing takes lots of time and effort and thinking. All cost, besides this makes you an artist more than just a contractor.
The design aspect at the frame stage really will be entertaining, I have to say. Doesn't seem like that much work though. I can already visualize filling the space. These types of projects have a way of building themselves in the mind's eye. Kind of a response to what you have to work with.
I've just been wondering about the most cost effective way to go about the construction but I think that's narrowing itself down too. Everybody's input has been helpful. I'll try to remember to post about the cost outcome.
why hot mop? there are many cold applied products right out of a 5 gal bucket made for this type application... liquid liner products that are well proven in everything from showers, tubs, parking garage decks... swimming pools... ect...
p
I've been using a company for my shower pans for years that comes in and does a beautiful job so that's the first thing that came to mind. I'll probably look into the waterproofing aspect on this one though.
I just started another thread about "Scagliola".
It sounds perfect for your application!
like this-
http://www.francoisandco.com/?section=collections&id=146
When you figure it out teach me!
Wow Henley, hand carved limestone, that would be very expensive. I've had guys do that sort of thing before but it's every bit as heavy as casting in concrete and many, many times more costly so it probably won't do in this application. I hadn't even considered it though so thanks for the suggestion.
The scagliola isn't hand carved limestone. It's a mixture of
plaster, marble dust and hide glue.
I believe that example is cast. I know it may not be the cheapest solution. I'm shamelessly trolling for the "Scagliola" master to
enlighten us.
Ah, I see. After looking a little more thoroughly at the scagolia site it appears they specialize in free standing tubs. That would make sense for something cast or carved. My client wants a built-in, with surrounding deck.
There are a couple of companies here in the San Francisco bay area that do cast concrete in just about any form you draw up for them. I'll be damned if they'll reveal their formulas and techniques though. The results are flawless. Very impressive stuff. (expensive too).