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Cutting alum. with a carbide tipped blad

robtnort | Posted in General Discussion on April 25, 2004 10:31am

I am needing to rip some aluminum porch posts in half (lengthwise). I have been told that this can be done on a tablesaw with a regular carbide tipped blade. I cringe at the thought! Is this a common practice? Should I use a special type of carbied tipped blade? Please help!

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  1. DougU | Apr 25, 2004 10:41pm | #1

    Rob

    Yes you can, I would use a finish blade as apposed to a 10 tooth rip blade, I'm not the biggest fan of cutting alum. on my table saw but I do it all the time on a chop saw.

    Doug

  2. User avater
    IMERC | Apr 25, 2004 10:46pm | #2

    Put dry lube on the blade....

    60 tooth TC works pretty good...

    Put more dry lube on the blade....

    Clean the table saw to AIG standards....

    Did I mention more lube...

    Lots of safty gear too...

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....

                                            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

    1. andybuildz | Apr 25, 2004 10:51pm | #4

      IMERC's in a lube mode......hmmmmmmm...lolMy life is my passion!

      http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

      1. User avater
        IMERC | Apr 25, 2004 11:47pm | #6

        Be slick.........Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

        1. DanH | Apr 26, 2004 09:48pm | #15

          Yeah, in my limited experience, the one real hazard here is of the blade grabbing suddenly. Since aluminum is soft and pliable it will tend to wrap around the blade and bind that much worse, possibly causing the workpiece to buckle and go in all directions. Worse with thin, odd-shaped pieces.

          So a good, steady grip and relatively slow feed rate are important. And eye protection isn't a dumb idea, as the "sawdust" can easily get blown/thrown back into your face and is much more likely to cause eye injury than regular wood sawdust. For fairly large pieces or when doing a lot of cuts, ear protection is a good idea too.

          1. robtnort | Apr 27, 2004 04:24am | #16

            Thank you all!

            These are all excellant suggestions.

            Bob Roberts

          2. 4Lorn2 | Apr 28, 2004 05:44am | #22

            I wasn't going to mention this, these folks have you wound up like you are attempting to infiltrate the Taliban to slip a whoopee cushion under OBL, but this may be easier than it seems. In an earlier job as a machinist we were working on specialized industrial trailers. These were largely constructed of aluminum.

            We get a set of trailers all assembled and the customer announces that they shipped the wrong plans. The sides, similar to what you see around a classic stake truck but in half inch by four inch aluminum bar stock are all too long by about 6".

            This was before plasma guns. We didn't want to disassemble the trailers and using a jig or power hacksaw left a sloppy edge. This cleaned up satisfactory with a belt sander but it was slow and inconsistent. There were a lot of these trailers and eight bars to cut on each.

            Answer came when one of the older machinists got a circular saw, a worm drive with a carbide tipped plywood blade. He mounted a piece of wood as a guide and cut both bars on that side in one smooth move. The guy explained that we needed to keep the blade extended to keep the angle at which the tips hit the metal nearly perpendicular to the saw base and pulling the material tight into the base not resisting the movement of the saw. We also made sure the blades were dead sharp replacing them as they got dull and dragged.

            I did it myself on a few cuts. No major problems. It was a vertical cut. Safety gear was nothing but a set of safety glasses, a pair of leather gloves, good footing and an attitude. This was the first time I had used this type of saw. One trick is a light but steady pressure. You want to keep the tips cutting not skating and letting the guide direct the cut. No steering once the cut starts. One guy, trying to correct the cut mid course, twisted it and caused a kick back. Saw bounced off the concrete as he back pedaled.

            We didn't use any lubricants but if the cuts had been longer, causing the blade and work to heat up, a simple solution of soapy water would have been sprayed on. There are commercial solutions but a bit, a small bit, of Ivory dish soap and plain water works well and makes welding and other procedures easier than products that get into the pores.

            Point being that you need to be careful, feather boards angled to help prevent kickback and a well planned escape route while you keep out of the way, but this is not like making nitro.

  3. SEBDESN | Apr 25, 2004 10:46pm | #3

    I have cut 1/2"alum plate many times with a carbide blade with no bad results. I might add that you must make sure you have complete control of the piece being cut, while cutting, as if you get it cocked in the least it will bite you. (don't ask how I know that). The company that I buy my aluminum from for various projects does the same.  

  4. seeyou | Apr 25, 2004 11:12pm | #5

    I've got a 12" non ferrous metal blade I use on my mitre saw to cut copper gutter and downspout. I think I've seen 'em in 10" also.

  5. MojoMan | Apr 26, 2004 04:37am | #7

    The few times I've done this, I was nervous too. I always wear saftey glasses, but especially for something like this. I also wore heavy work gloves. Hearing protection might also be a good idea. Finally, I did it in a few passes, raising the blade a fraction of an inch each time.

    It always worked well. Aluminum is pretty darn soft compared to carbide. If fact, Iv'e done similar things with soft steel when cutting an opening in a steel door.

    Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

    1. FastEddie1 | Apr 26, 2004 07:29am | #8

      If you have acess to a bandsaw, you might try using a bi-metal blade.  More chance of blade drift (not following the line) but much lower pucker factor.

      If you use a table saw (or circular saw), two thoughts: buy or borrow a full face shield, like wood turners use.  Wear a long sleeve shirt and button the collar.  Clean out the area under the saw so there's no chance of hot aluminum chips starting a smoldering fire.  Ok, so that's three thoughts...so?

      Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

  6. moltenmetal | Apr 26, 2004 04:43pm | #9

    With a little caution and a 60-tooth (10") blade properly lubed up with dry lube, you'll be fine.  Don't get too ambitious on your feed rate, and gear up to protect yourself from hot chips and the noise as the other posters have mentioned.  Carbide woodworking blades are used all the time for cutting aluminum- just make sure you keep the feed rate down or you'll start melting aluminum to the teeth and gum up the blade.  Dry lube helps, but if you feed too fast or your blade is too dull it won't be enough.

    1. gubawatts | Apr 26, 2004 08:28pm | #10

      What type of dry lube are you guys using...?

      Thanks

  7. WorkshopJon | Apr 26, 2004 08:53pm | #11

    Matchless Grease Stick 1-1/4 Lb from http://www.freemansupply.com

    "I am needing to rip some aluminum porch posts in half (lengthwise). I have been told that this can be done on a tablesaw with a regular carbide tipped blade."

    Rob,

    Been doing it on a table saw (1/4" to 1" sheets) for 25+ years.  Use a carbide triple chip blade, positive rake, and a grease stick (apply to blade for every inch or two of cut).  WD-40 can be used in a bind, but you have to keep the metal soaked if going that route.

    Sorry, but all of you who said "dry lube".........Have you ever actually done it?...vs. compared to the "right way"?

    Click on the above link for a source for a stick.

    Jon

    1. moltenmetal | Apr 26, 2004 09:12pm | #12

      We use a wax stick, applied by cutting through the stick prior to beginning the rip- that's what I'm calling "dry lube".  We've used numerous brands and don't have a favourite.  We've ripped considerable lengths of aluminum in a single pass without attempting to (or needing to) re-apply lubricant mid-cut, though we've never ripped the posts the original poster is talking about.  On the chop saw, we lube the blade once per day.  One of our guys injured himself pretty badly attempting to actually rub the stick on the turning blade rather than cut through the cardboard sleeve, so make sure you follow the instructions on the stick!

      1. WorkshopJon | Apr 26, 2004 09:32pm | #13

        "We use a wax stick,"

        Molten,

        Wax is a liquid at the temps the blade will ultimately see, but doesn't stick well at first when the blade is cold.  I've tried wax vs. grease sticks, IMO wax doesn't stick to the blade initially, and $ for $, a semi-hard grease stick goes farther.

        Do-All also makes a good product called "Blade Saver" also.

        1. User avater
          IMERC | Apr 26, 2004 09:46pm | #14

          My first choice is Bostik Dry Lube.

          No petro base - fire hazard. No wax - makes a mess. That's MY saw that aluminium is being cut on...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          1. WorkshopJon | Apr 27, 2004 03:59pm | #18

            "No petro base - fire hazard."

            Geez IMERC,

            Aluminum melts at temps below that.  But hey, if dry lube works for you,........ and I've never tried it myself, so maybe it's worth a shot.

            I do know [solid] grease sticks, and WD-40 in a bind, work well also.  The biggie is to use a positive rake [carbide] triple chip blade. The wrong blade with the right lube isn't going to cut it (pardon the pun).

            Jon

          2. User avater
            IMERC | Apr 27, 2004 07:09pm | #19

            Petro mixed in with the saw dust can act the same as yur pile of staining / finishing rags....  Aluminium cools quite rapidly so as a fire starter it's kinda moot... Now a pile of AL dust will flash pretty easily.. 

            And yes a TC is the ticket for aluminium...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

  8. User avater
    Dinosaur | Apr 27, 2004 06:53am | #17

    Good, tight-fitting leather gloves with big, stiff gauntlets (like a power company linesman's glove).

    Bandana or BB cap to cover your hair.

    Full face shield.

    Full ear muffs, not just plug-ins.

    Lube: Product called DRI-SLIDE; what it is is molybdenum disulfite. Binds so well to metal you have to scrub hard to get it off if you slip while applying it.

    Dinosaur

    'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

  9. fdampier5 | Apr 27, 2004 11:40pm | #20

    One of my customers is featherlite trailers.. they build aluminum trailers for the NASCAR and NHRA crowd..  they use carpentry tools all of the time.. regular old skil saws and carbide tipped blades etc..

      Since they've been doing it for a few decades without incident I think it's safe (PS I do it myself) 

    1. User avater
      Sphere | Apr 28, 2004 04:04am | #21

      I frequenty use old hiway signs for jigs and such in my work..they are a harder alum. and make good templates..

      I have never had to wax/grease or anything UNLESS I was using a router, which then the cut area was waxed prior to cutting

      Once on a vinyl clad alum. porch job..the helping homeowner over heard from a sparky the "turn the blade around" method..we had been cutting all day with out a hitch..well, one vinyl chip out..that was a 60 tooth blade..

      first cut with the blade reversed..he stripped all the teeth off..do not do that except for thin siding alum.!!!

      take it slow an easy..that type of alum. is softer than what I usually am cutting..you will have no problem.View Image

      Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

      Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

  10. BKCBUILDER | Apr 29, 2004 02:26pm | #23

     Sounds like the perfect opportunity (or excuse) to go buy yourself a Plasma Cutter. You'll wonder how you lived without it......from experience. Keith

    1. mitch | Apr 29, 2004 09:48pm | #24

      has anybody yet mentioned that blade mfrs actually sell blades specifically designed for cutting non-ferrous (not iron or steel based) metals?  they're typically triple chip grinds with very little or no rake angle.  check freud or cmt for a good one.

      m

    2. JohnSprung | Apr 29, 2004 09:50pm | #25

      > go buy yourself a Plasma Cutter.

      OK, sounds interesting.  Tell us about makes, models, capacities, prices, good and bad features....

      -- J.S.

      1. BKCBUILDER | Apr 29, 2004 10:54pm | #26

        I like Miller. For a starter, and for 75% of everyone a 375 unit will do the job. Can be run on 110V or 220V(change plug on end of cord, and flip switch on back of unit) will make a rated cut at 1/4", cut nice to 3/8" and sever to 1/2". Has a 30% duty cycle, and will cut any metal that conducts electicity. Simple to use, point and pull the trigger. You can drag cut, or stand off(best for consumable life and cut quality and speed).

          Slag knocks off with ease, can cut crazy shapes, plunge, gouge....possibilities are endless.

        1. JohnSprung | Apr 30, 2004 02:56am | #27

          Thanks.  I found their web info:

          http://www.millerwelds.com/products/plasma/spectrum_375/

          Looks like a nice thing to have, but quite spendy at $1500.

          -- J.S.

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