I have to help my brother out cutting a new laminate countertop to size this weekend. I’ve heard mixed information about whether to use a circular saw w/ a fine toothed blade, or a jigsaw made to cut on the downstroke only(if such a thing exists).
So, I’ve come to the experts. What do you folks do?
Justin Fink – FHB Editorial
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Replies
Justin, thanks for sending the stuff to Ohio!
Describe the counter and the cut. Mitre, end cut to wall. End cut that gets the cap kit. Sink hole. Post form splash?
Cut from the underside works, never exit out of a finished end. Cut close, belt sand to finish. Place a backer where there's no buildup so the saw rides flat. I use a 28 tooth carbide.
You can also rout the cut or finish a rough cut with a router and guide.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Bosch makes a chip free blade that clean cuts top and bottom, good for sink cut-outs. I like to use a 40 tooth carbide thin blade in my skill saw and cut with the laminate face down. I also like to tape, with a good masking tape where I'll be cutting just for a little more insurance.
Take lots of time don't rush and make sure the top is well supported.
I hope when your done your brother has plenty of brain juice to replenish what you'll lose during this ordeal, at least a six pack.
I cut laminate tops with this blade in my sidewinder:
http://www.freud-tools.com/freudd0714x4.html
I can make very crisp cuts from the top of the laminate...no need to flip and fill the underside.
Bosch makes a blade for the jigsaw, the number is something like 234R where the R means the teeth are reversed and point down. I know the 234 is wrong so don't go looking for that, but get the R blade. And turn off the orbital action on the saw.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Fasteddie on the right track--I always use my Bosch with the down tooth--don't even think about using it if it is dull--I can't miss centering the sink if the tops are in place and cause the stroke is down the saw dust goes into the sink cabinet--can you say centralized mess--Use a spade bit in the corners to round the laminate and avoid stress cracks forming, cut the sides first, screw blocks to the cut out bridging over the cuts to hold the piece from falling in as you make the back then the front cut. Presto--instant hole--and the sink slids right though to the cabinet floor the very first time.Don't ya just love it when a plan comes toghether---P.S. I learned this lesson from a CT installer who was haveing a very bad day, guess every time the sink doesn't fall through I owe him royalities. LOLMike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
I guess weve all got our ways.
I was taught to work in peoples homes as an installer . Noone wants a skill saw or router inside or a mess made outside including me. I think in a home where someone is living,power tools are unproductive in this case. I come in with a straight edge and the rest is in my apron.
Cut one side at 45 degrees the same as anyone else would do. I would cut it with a scoring knife and straight edge. Undercut and clean the burrs with a long file . Strong reading glasses and a good light helps. Its about the same as sharpening blades. Use that cut peice as a template placed over the second peice. Same steps. Meet the two and all it should like is sanding minor stuff you cant see standing up with out the good light. You can keep working till its perfect if there is a perfect because its only as perfect as normal eyes can see under over head lighting thats 8 feet away or more and a lot of the time the light is behind your back in the room lighting. They will never have a 300 watt bulb and reading glasses looking at it up close and personal.
One very straight or ripped straight 2x3 x 4 ft makes a fine sanding paper holder to dress an angle cut.
Tim
Edited 8/22/2005 11:52 pm ET by Mooney
Personally, I've always just used a circular saw and ran it backwards along the cut. (Kids, don't try this at home!)
Seriously, I don't advise this method. It takes lot's of experience and lot's of self confidence. I think the downward cutting jig saw blade or a router and a clamped-on straightedge are probably the safest methods.
Mooney, I read and re-read your post and I'm baffled. Are you saying that you cut a 1-1/2" thick countertop with just a knife and a straightedge? Or am I reading this wrong?
Regarding working in a remodel environment, I have in the past used a hand saw to cut out a sink opening in order to cut down on dust in the home. It took me about ten minutes instead of the usual 45 seconds, but it was virtually dust free.
Sorry my mistake . Laminate.
If I was going to cut a counter top it would be as you say or it has been the times Ive done it. I dont make a practice of cutting them though. Ive read the responses and no one has mentioned gettintg them cut preordered. I know we talk about doing stuff on here , but I dont cut them for several reasons if I can avoid it . The first is money. I can order a top cut including sink and braced cheaper than I can do it . If somthing fails or happens its not me. Kind of like insurance. Another thing is I cant afford again to cut and make a mess in someones home if I can avoid it. I can make better time and money bringing the counter top in precut. Which brings me to a question. Why does anyone choose to cut them? The only reason I can imagine is if it happens to be wrong. Ive seen guys cut both ends saving the end cut for last in case somthing happens to the 45. The common thing for me to to worry about is the degree of angle that a corner has during its counter top lengths. If the angle should happen to figgure 44 or 46 degrees over a 6 foot length , then Im going to be in for some work. Even 1/2 degree off is going to be bad work if the counter top is cut at 45 degrees. If the exact angle is found and ordered its their baby. They also provide the keyways and bolts which I would not have if I cut the top. A precut top can usually be installed in an hour with no mess in a low to moderate kitchen. The fact is that the lumber yards shop does not charge enough of an up charge for me to do it. Check on that sometime what it would cost you to get it precut and you figgure it.
My Father hired a full time installer that came from a big city. He learned from other full time installers. It was quite an education for small town boys. Dad had a store and installing went on every day. Dad and I also installed . We installed everything we sold which was just about everything as it was a full service lumber yard. I said that to say that sometimes it paid money to keep things simple . The biggest thing that guy ever taught me was organization. I needed a few more lessons . <G> What amazed me and still does thinking back is that he never "looked " for anything. He simply gathered it. His knifes and planes were always sharp. [he had to have done that at home] He cleaned his files with laquer thinner and a brass brush before he put them up. They were always clean. He always had things thought out to save thoughts and steps and looking back still amazes me as I didnt pick it up or enough of it to be satisfied. I know Im veering off subject in a way, but dead on in what I was trying to say.
Tim
Nice post Tim.
I've had the honor of working alongside a true craftsman once or twice and my regret has always been that I didn't pay more attention and learn more from them." If I were a carpenter"
Thank you.
One other thing, if you do decide to flip the countertop over and use a circ. saw, don't use a fine tooth blade. make sure you use a carbide blade, I always use a 40-tooth blade.
A fine tooth blade will just overheat and warp causing your cut to go sorely awry.
I know this sounds too simple to be true, but I just mask the area with good quality masking tape, mark the cutout size from the cardboard pattern that came with the sink, and then cut it with my jig saw with the orbital action turned off. Obviously, this is for an overlap sink install. If I were cutting for an undermount sink where the entire cut would be faced and visible afterwards, I'd cut ¼" shy of the line with the jigsaw, and finish with a flush trimming router bit against a solid wood pattern screwed to the underside of the countertop.
I once tried one of those special laminate-cutter bits that are made just for this kind of work, but it basically burned its way through and was a major major PITA. Never again....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
It looks like a lot of guys missed the "cut to size" comment, no mention of sink cutout. You did not mention if it had a postform backsplash or not. If not it should be a piece of cake if just shortening it. If desired you can score it then cut it with circ saw or one of the downcut jigsaw blades. As someone else said beware of the plywood type blades as they can overheat, especially if it is the one with the built up center stabilizer like a DeWalt, it does not cut clearance as they are designed to cut about 1" max.
If you are using an add-on backsplash and endsplash you do not have to be very careful as they will cover sins very well. You can buy matching caulk for most popular laminates.
Edited 8/23/2005 12:24 pm ET by rasconc
I'll add my two cents......It sounds like you're getting the precut counters from the big box store. I would use their 45 degree angles. The length on each piece would be cut with a circular saw from underneath (tape the edge to be cut, flip it over, use a straight edge, start from the back and cut away...or maybe make a test cut first). then glue the counter together. Now scribe your counter to wall. Use the saber saw with down cutting blade to cut away the scribe. It should now fit. Hopefully you are just doing Lshaped or straight counters. U shaped is much more dificult.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
if you don't have too much to remove, belt sander would give you better control than a saw for the scribing
if you don't have too much to remove, belt sander would give you better control than a saw for the scribing
I've tried that and also using my Makita planer. I like the saber saw the best. Try it you'll like it.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
"Try it you'll like it."
nine million kitchen and bath subs are wrong and one banker is right?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
nine million kitchen and bath subs are wrong and one banker is right?
Sorry Jeff, I guess I should not have posted my thoughts. I guess you know all the tricks of the trade. I guess Mitremike and WRudiger are wrong too.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Lose the attitude ... go back and read.
you discounted a tip from a Pro ....
a method that is the most common method of scribing PLam counter tops. Done all the time .. all day long ... by guys that are professional kitchen and bath installers.
btw ... yes, I do know most tricks of the trade.
But I am willing to learn something new ... from another professional.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Its kinda cool hearing all of you on this matter.
Ill throw this in;
I use a grinder with #50 grit sanding disk to plane the back. Ive tried a belt sander and dont have enough control and its "heavy". Ive tried a portable planner and its ok but if there happens to be a joint that is high in the drywall , the planner is difficult. "(" ")" I have never tried that blade described. I can see you would also have control as with the grinder and "less dust". What I silently question is that I normally "back cut" the counter with the grinder. That takes care of high areas under the top counter line and makes a super fit to the wall. I cant imagine that being done with a saber saw especially at the ends where I normall make a small dish indention. Try the grinder if you have one. I will try the saber saw.
Note: The back cut indention makes a glue pocket once installed against the wall. That has a habit of containing excess glue within the counter line. I cant remember having to clean excess adhesive from the wall using that pocket.
Tim
Try the grinder if you have one.
I've thought about that but all the dust scares me.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
As others have said - Bosch jig saw blade. T101B if cutting from underneath, T101BR if cutting from on top. Gave me an edge as smooth as I get with the Forrest WW II on the TS - sweeet! Less nerve wracking for me as well, especially if you have the preformed piece with backsplash - I don't like trying to wrap the circular saw around the edge.
what kind of cuts are you talking about?
cutting a miter joint in a post form top with a backsplash is imposible without a proper countertop saw, they resemble a very large radial arm saw usually with a 14 or 15 inch blade
a simple cut to length can be done several ways, usually with a circ saw with the material upside down with a guide of some kind; then use a jigsaw from the back top cut the backsplash, final cleanup for capping with a belt sander
any fine jigsaw blade will cut a sink hole in minutes, from the top is fine the sink rim will cover any minor chipping and if a very fine cut is required, reverse tooth blades are available
Sorry I wasn't more clear guys... It won't be a simple cut-to-length job, because for that I can just slap on the premade laminate cap. This will be somewhere around a 60 degree cut. I plan on using a bevel square to match the exact corner, then transfer that angle to the countertop itself.
Seems like the general consensus breaks down to a carbide blade-equipped circular saw from bottom side, with painters tape covering the finish side to prevent tear-out; or a jigsaw with a Bosch R blade from the topside...my concern with the latter is that it will be tough to get a straight cut because the blade in a jigsaw is more likely to wander...nobody has had a problem with this in the past?
(p.s. - thanks for ruling out a fine toothed/plywood circ. blade - I probably would have chosen that if you guys hadn't warned me in advance!)Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
But this still begs the question of why you don't just measure it up and order ot that way ? I write down 59.5º on the order sheet and that's what they cut.PS, I have cut a top: used a router..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
This is coming from home depot, and I'm not about to go through the hassle of a special order on this thing...those are a nightmare at the big box store.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Will you be scribing both sides of the 60 degree angle? If so, I would cut it several times with a saber saw and when it was close enough, I would scribe it.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Use a guide and a router. Put a straight edge on finished side and use a trim bit. If matching to sides use the same method but with a guide on the router and two straight edges.
Ah. I can't afford to buy laminate from a big box. We usually go to the guy who supplies the big boxes and get the same price they do..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
dare i say use a hand saw!!!!!! all you need is skill and a block plane
<carbide blade-equipped circular saw from bottom side>be sure to cut the back splash first or it will have a tendancy to snap when cutting the rest of the top(ask mehow I know this)Have a belt sander with the coarsest grit (40) or betterto clean the cut up.
"Sorry I wasn't more clear guys... It won't be a simple cut-to-length job, because for that I can just slap on the premade laminate cap. This will be somewhere around a 60 degree cut. I plan on using a bevel square to match the exact corner, then transfer that angle to the countertop itself."
That what you do. Two 1X12s cut to the length of the cuts is an exact way to measure the angle over the correct run of counter. Over lap the two and scew the joint together. Then measure that exact angle of those two walls for that exact distance. Hopefully shelf boards are on the job. If longer boards work with out cutting them [to length]to find the angle all the better . You could return those two boards to the lumber yard with some wood filler in the screw holes if need be.
Its a shame you couldnt have gone to a laminate supplier and gave them those angles and lengths we just discussed. As I said ealiar in the thread , I too do the same as Phil for reasons I already stated. But then we would not have had this topic posted . <G> Ive learned from it for other things to try on for size .
Tim
Edited 8/25/2005 2:56 am ET by Mooney
can you post a picture of what you need?
between all of us we can suggest a solution
does the top have a backsplash, if so where?
finished ends? walls? etc etc
What is the cut abutting? A perfectly straight wall, then rough cut with cricular saw to an eighth then laminate router riding a straight edge. A wall or tallboy cabinet in reality? Then scribe, rough cut with power saw, belt sand leaving the line thus giving you a thirty-second for tuning. Back bevel sharply with the power saw up to an inch of the nosing, cut shy of the scribe line down the nosing and sand to it.
If the counter is captured I'll tear into the wallboard in a heart-beat, this'll let you over cut the counter by a quarter inch and still draw the scribe. I personally feel that if I have to ding the drywall or whatnot, since it seems the back always is longer than the front of a countertop, I'm going to do it. I won't bugger a scribe joint because the walls are wrong, you can't spackle and paint laminate. An old X-ray from the doc will help in sliding the counter down the wall or cabinet without scuffing the finish. Every time I install a counter in a finished room, I say up front that the walls shouldn't have been finished yet if they are. Would you finish drywall before the roof is on?