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Cutting rock

rez | Posted in Construction Techniques on September 2, 2006 11:57am

Looks like I got the job of resetting a brick walkway as boulders have risen from beneath, upsetting the brick in a half dozen places in a half circular yard wide walkway of prob something like 80ft.

I had removed the brick around one area and moved the dirt enough to see the sides of the boulder would be extending out beyond the walkway. So whole rock removal isn’t an option.

Good chance it will be a granite boulder.

If I could level the rounded tops of the boulders by say an inch or two it would make the job.

Short of renting a jackhammer(would that do it?) is there a type of saw and blade that could be used to score the top of the boulders in a grid to help the process?

Fishing for ideas as it’s a first time thru on this type of deal.

Thanks

 A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song. 

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Replies

  1. User avater
    Sphere | Sep 03, 2006 12:37am | #1

    Sure. Diamond blade in a circ saw..kerf every inch or so apart. Stone chisel and hammer or go to HF and get a cheapo air hammer. BTDT. I use my 4.5" grinder tho, so's not to get a good circsaw wadded up with stone dust.

    Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    " If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"

    1. rez | Sep 03, 2006 12:43am | #2

      hmmm, a good excuse to buy some new tools.

       

      be I like it like it yes I do

       A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song. 

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Sep 03, 2006 12:47am | #3

        I got the air chisel deal at HF for 6 bucks on sale...I like playing with the limestone we have all over. Uses a lot of air tho'.

        Also cut a sump pit in the basement floor with it and a diamond wheel in the grinder..ez.

        Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        " If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"

  2. Jer | Sep 03, 2006 01:01am | #4

    Shere's right about the circ saw. I bought a $35 cheapie at Lowes that is designated for only the diamond blade. I only use it so often so it's really been worth it. I keep a PC leftie, a PC rightie, and the cheapie with the diamond blade in my truck at all times.

    1. rez | Sep 03, 2006 01:05am | #8

      What do you recommend for a diamond blade on a grinder?

       A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song. 

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Sep 03, 2006 01:13am | #9

        I just got a new one at Fastenal thursday 30 bucks continuous rim. The DWalt blades are pretty good too. Got miles of slate to cut in a radius thi scoming week.

        Pics will be forthcoming.

        Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        " If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"

        1. andy_engel | Sep 03, 2006 03:26am | #10

          Where a mask. Stone dust = silicosis.

          Did you see the tip in this month's JLC? Heat the rock up along the line you want it to break (the author used a propane torch), then quench it with cold water. Whack with sledge hammer.

          I don't know how well this works personally, but it's a chance to play with fire.Andy

          "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein

          "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

          1. alias | Sep 03, 2006 04:36am | #13

            i've done this before also and am a amatuer fire bug , those flame wands you attach to a propane tanks work real well. i've done this before , the wands cost around 80 to 100 bucks have a valve adjustment. they throw a decent size, broad flame . kinda loud, the amount and time of heat depends on the size of subject. there certain variations like hammerdrills, wedges, pins and quills, but that diamond blade can get EXPENSIVE , masonary blade,stone are little tougher on them and dont have the capability to get further down that you are gonna need. but i dont know the size your talkin' about. so we have flame, water , and a sledge. the only thing i would throw in there would be a crow bar to split the chards better to remove them. optional ingredients .... friends, beer, burned cow........ have fun with it .." Crea la mitad de lo que usted ve, y nada de lo que usted oye."

          2. seeyou | Sep 04, 2006 12:06am | #25

            >>>>>>>>>>>i've done this before also and am a amatuer fire bug I just got a visual image of you wearing a beer hat (the kind with the tube that leads to your mouth) wielding a flame thrower with a cig dangling from the corner of your mouth, seeking vengance in the Village.
            Burn on, Brother. 

            "Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.

            GRANTT LOGANN - THE LEXINGTONVILLE COPPERWRIGHT

             

            http://grantlogan.net/

          3. alias | Sep 04, 2006 01:03am | #26

            yep, thats me chasing the villagers down with torches , a little reverse frankenstien there for ya.... no smoking two weeks and counting........" Crea la mitad de lo que usted ve, y nada de lo que usted oye."

          4. Piffin | Sep 04, 2006 01:51am | #29

            LOLDidn't you invent something rez could use? 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          5. seeyou | Sep 04, 2006 03:31am | #33

            >>>>>Didn't you invent something rez could use?I invented rubber explosives. They just bounced right off. 

            "Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.

            GRANTT LOGANN - THE LEXINGTONVILLE COPPERWRIGHT

             

            http://grantlogan.net/

          6. Piffin | Sep 03, 2006 07:49pm | #17

            That is one that calls for gogles. The granite explodes small scales off when it heats sometimes. A face mask is even better. Gloves too. It's kind of like trying to weld something while kids are shooting BBs at your face 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          7. andy_engel | Sep 03, 2006 08:06pm | #18

            It's kind of like trying to weld something while kids are shooting BBs at your face

            Piffin, you've led an interesting life.

            Good call on the goggles. Andy

            "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein

            "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

          8. rez | Sep 03, 2006 08:09pm | #19

            Thanks all.

            When the time arrives I'll keep yous posted.

             

             

            be BT fodder

             A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song. 

          9. andy_engel | Sep 03, 2006 08:18pm | #21

            Take pictures, particularly if you go with the ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel.

            One really fun way to heat the rock would be to bury it in magnesium turnings. Or aluminum turnings mixed up with an oxidizer like potassium chlorate. Ignite either from a distance perhaps using green string - no explosion, but lots of heat and brilliant white light. Don't ask how I know. Andy

            "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein

            "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

          10. rez | Sep 03, 2006 09:21pm | #22

            Right, and I'll be a stones throw from the historic district.

             

            be heh heh them old bitties would be shiddin' bricks and man would the phones be ringing off the hooks! Roar!

             A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song. 

          11. Piffin | Sep 04, 2006 01:45am | #27

            I'm LMAO really now!I had a friend who had to clear a trail in the forest once. He had a stump in the way and sticks of dynamite handy. He figured one might do it, but two sticks would make sure.He spent the next week filling in the hole. Told me half a stick would have probably taken the stump out...Oh yeah - he never was sure where the stump went. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          12. User avater
            zak | Sep 04, 2006 02:27am | #31

            That's too funny, I've done almost exactly what you were talking about-

            Clearing stumps out of a trail we were building a bridge on, working our way from the bridge back up to the truck.  Everything is going great so far, but we get to the last stump, and it's pretty big.  We decide to just use whatever we've got left on it, so we don't have to take the rest of our explosives back.  I think we stuffed 4 sticks of dynamite and 10 or 15 pounds of ANFO (ammonium nitrate + fuel oil) under it.  The crew back at the bridge, about 1/4 mile away, said they saw stump parts flying in the distance. 

            We had to fill in a crater about 10 feet across and 6 feet deep, but we had an excavator, so it didn't take too long.zak

            "so it goes"

          13. andy_engel | Sep 04, 2006 04:21pm | #35

            Go with the fertilizer, and you might throw the stone as far as the historic district.

            Use the magnesium or the aluminum on a bright, sunny day. Shows up too well at night.

            In fact, I doubt there's anything illegal about the magnesium or aluminum. There's no explosion, just a hot, hot, bright flare. Andy

            "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein

            "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

          14. junkhound | Sep 03, 2006 09:59pm | #23

            aluminum turnings mixed up with an oxidizer like potassium chlorate

            Hey Andy, others have said they don't like to get into 'Rocket science' here, <G>

            FWIW Rez, if you deceide to try to DIY making some KChlorate for starters, mix it on a rubber blanket by alternately lifting the corners by string and pulley from about a 1/2 block away.  Yeah, like Andy said, dont ask how I know that either.

          15. Tomrocks21212 | Sep 04, 2006 02:04am | #30

            When I was a teenager, we had problems trying to buy any kind of chlorate, can't imagine that it's any easier nowadays.
            A few years ago, when I was old enough to know better, I mixed up a batch of powdered aluminum (almost as fine as talcum powder)and some sodium nitrate fertilizer, ground real fine. Put a teaspoon of the stuff into a coffee can to see what would happen. It burned so bright it looked like welding flash, and that little bit burned a hole clear through the coffee can.
            Ex-wife was NOT impressed!

          16. Piffin | Sep 04, 2006 01:46am | #28

            Think we might be having rezfest in a federal prison visiting room? 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          17. User avater
            zak | Sep 04, 2006 02:31am | #32

            How about thermite, the stuff used to weld railroad tracks together?  Aluminum and iron oxide, along with a ignition device, should do a number on that rock.zak

            "so it goes"

          18. andy_engel | Sep 04, 2006 04:18pm | #34

            That would work too, but my, er, my friend's experience, is with the lighter metals.Andy

            "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein

            "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

  3. peteduffy | Sep 03, 2006 01:01am | #5

    Diamond blade on an angel grinder should work too.  Easier to get into some places than a circular saw.

    Pete Duffy, Handyman

    1. rez | Sep 03, 2006 01:03am | #6

      ya, I won't have a compressor there.

       A bird does not sing because it has an answer. A bird sings because it has a song. 

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Sep 03, 2006 01:05am | #7

        Be making little ones outta big ones with a hammer..LOL

        Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        " If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"

      2. junkhound | Sep 03, 2006 08:16pm | #20

        a.  Stone mountain GA was carved with torches, probably your best bet for short term. Wet the stone first if not already damp, the steam help blow of pieces.

        b. frost heave or roots is another story, need to remove totally or get center of gravity below frost line - hard to know htat without knowing the size of the whole rock. (how I love having a backhoe)

        c. when hand digging out a basement a few years back (everything out thru a 3 ft door) , ran ito a 4 ft boulder - ended up digging hole big enought below basement floor to roll it into with a couple of come-alongs and buried it.   

        d. cheap diamond saws.  Have cut about 100 linear feet of concrete 2-1/2" deep with a $12  HF 7-1/4" blade and blade still good - when first got it, wondered how long it would last as relatively few diamond chips compared to 'pro' saws. Used it WET, had garden hose with a trickle coming out wired to the front sole plate of the sidewinder, no dust. Use LOTS of pressure on the saw, a two hand job for sure. I can cut about 3 to 4 inches per minute in concrete with a 15A saw spinning the blade, about 5 times that fast in brick or asphalt.

        e. Have a big Polish neighbor who split a 2-1/2 ft boulder in his back yard with just repeated blows from a 16# sledge - big guy though, dont think I'd want to try that, would buy a hydraulic jackhammer for the backhoe first.  - excuse for you to buy a backhoe<G>

  4. WNYguy | Sep 03, 2006 03:56am | #11

    Your question reminded me of a recent job by a stone mason friend of mine.  He uses a large gasoline-powered circular saw, equipped with a diamond blade.

    The grade was lowered along the side of a Federal-period inn, exposing a rough stone foundation that was never intended to be visible.  He used his diamond saw to score the stone, then chiseled it flush to the brickwork above.

    The vertical score marks mimic the original tool marks on another side of the inn, where the stone foundation has always been exposed.

    The dark color of the newly-exposed limestone will eventually weather to a lighter gray.

    Photos as attachments below.

    -Allen



    Edited 9/2/2006 8:59 pm ET by WNYguy

  5. User avater
    Dinosaur | Sep 03, 2006 04:00am | #12

    Yo, dude--you're not gonna solve the problem by slicing off the top of that boulder. It's like clipping off a wart with a your electrical dykes--it'll just come back 'cause the root's still there underneath.

    That boulder rose to the surface due to frost heaving working it up an inch or so each year, and it will 99.9% likely keep on doing so. So if you carve off an inch or two and re-lay the walkway over it, you're gonna get a callback next summer or the year after, betcha dollars to doughnuts.

    Bust it into lil' pieces and get rid of it for good.

    Do that by drilling a line of holes across it with your Bulldog, then whack some feathers-n-quoins into it and watch 'er split. Keep doing that until you get it down to 'four-hand' or 'two-hand' rock, depending on whether you got another pair of hands with you to help you hoist it into the wheelbarry.

    Or, use this as an excuse to have some real fun and rent a small excavator: dig a hole next to it down well below the frost line, and nudge it down into there.

    Watch out for the kangaroos....

    View Image

    Dinosaur

    How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
    low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
    foolish men call Justice....

    1. dedubya | Sep 03, 2006 04:40am | #14

      I 2nd what mr. saur says, i have used a pneumatic drill though then use that

      expansion crap [cant remember the name right now]to bust the rock into

      manageable pieces ya got to get down deep or its just gonna come back to

      bite ya in the butt.

  6. geilerzimmermann | Sep 03, 2006 01:11pm | #15

    Out here in the poconos, when I have to dig for deck piers we always have decent size rocks blocking my way, so I whip out my trusty Hilti TE-5 and just keep drilling 1/2" holes till I can break the rock, some rocks drill faster than others. If you have a rotary hammer drill this may be a cheap way of doing it, depending on the amount thats necasary to remove

    mark

  7. Piffin | Sep 03, 2006 07:47pm | #16

    If the rock is small enough to heave up, it is small enough to dig out with a machine. Don't kill yourself on this. Rent the machine to getrdone

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  8. Stevefaust | Sep 03, 2006 10:12pm | #24

    what about that liquid jack hammer crap they advertise on the back pages of FHB.  

    Shows the before and after on a boulder...  steps... driveways... slabs...

    Be the pioneer...  be the first.

    Then get back to us on how well it worked

     

    GoodLuck.

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