Replies

1. 
   timkline | Apr 10, 2008 01:58am | #1

   I will be able to remove a lot of the weight of the wall from the floor above, where a like opening will also go.

   I learned a funny old saying from a house mover years ago "It's just weight."

   In your case, removing the brick from upstairs prior to downstairs beam installation to "reduce the weight" probably isn't a good idea especially in a 100 year old house.

   We just did this on a similar job last month except that the opening was at least 16 feet, was two stories of brick and had a slate roof resting on top.

   You need to start by hiring a structural engineer to design a steel beam or set of beams that can carry the load.   In our case we used two side by side I beams that were welded and bolted together in place.

   Needle beams (6x6 PT timbers inspected for knots in the wrong places) were inserted in holes created in the existing masonry wall above the elevation of the new beams.  The needles were supported by 6x6 posts.  The needles are installed anywhere from 3' to 6' apart depending on conditions.

   Once the needles are installed the brick opening is created and the brick jambs are repaired and the bearing plates are installed.   The steel is then set and shimmed and attached.  The brick above the beam is then repaired and the old brick is underpinned.  In our case, steel columns for support were required. 

   The needles are then removed and the needle holes in the brick are repaired.

   I am hoping for your sake that the beam will be below the ceiling height and that a flush beam is not required.  That is certainly more complex.

   We do this type of thing on a regular basis so it seems like old hat, but you can certainly get yourself in trouble quick if you don't do your shoring correctly.

    

   carpenter in transition

1. 
   HansonConstruction | Apr 10, 2008 04:39am | #2

   Thanks for your detailed response. But why would taking removing the bricks from upstairs be a bad idea? If I built stud, bearing walls for the first and second floor joists, then the brick would serve no purpose, and I could take down a ten foot wide section from attic to the first floor, and not worry at all about having to cut in a bearing beam. Minus the headache of what to do with all the bricks, can see a problem with this approach? Thanks again

1. 
   john_carroll | Apr 10, 2008 04:22pm | #3

   You seem to think that removing some of the weight from above will lessen the chance of a collapse. This is not so. You either need to get an engineer to draw up a shoring plan or tear out the masonry down to the top of the opening. 

1. 
   HansonConstruction | Apr 10, 2008 04:30pm | #4

   Thanks for your input. I'm beginning to see that this is not a simple operation.

2. 
   timkline | Apr 11, 2008 02:29am | #7

   we have nothing to go by except what you describe.

   it is possible that in removing all of this masonry that you weaken nearby masonry walls running in perpendicular directions risking major structure collapse.

    

   carpenter in transition

   Edited 4/10/2008 7:30 pm ET by timkline

1. 
   HansonConstruction | Apr 11, 2008 03:15am | #8

   Another good point. This prospect had also occurred to me. If it was modern masonry, I think I could risk it; but with this old, failing mortar, I will need some tie points, so that perpendicular walls are not left free-standing. Thanks again for the insight.

2. 
   Jim_Allen | Apr 10, 2008 06:20pm | #5

   It sounds like you are removing all the brick which could collapse and you are only worried about the joist falling in. So, shore the joist with temp walls.

   Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

1. 
   popawheelie | Apr 10, 2008 07:38pm | #6

   I have a brick wall that I will be putting some windows in. I'm thinking I'll just demo the brick all the way up to the plate on top. Then build a wood/steel structure under it.

   If I want the brick back above the windows for appearance I'll get a brick saw and slice off the face of them and stick them back on. It will be structurally sound and look like it's brick.

   Edited 4/10/2008 12:38 pm ET by popawheelie

3. 
   JeffinPA | Apr 11, 2008 04:37am | #9

   Tim's advice is wise.

   I just walked my engineer thru a house I am doing this very thing to.  14' wide opening in an interior wall that used to be an exterior wall.  10" block/brick wall from basement to 2nd floor rafters.

   We will end up removing the wall from rafters down after we shore everything per the engineers details, but he already found an issue that I had not thought about in my prelim work.  (I was bringing him out anyway, but always think it thru myself prior to calling him just to make sure I am not missing anything)

   A good residential engineer will make the job easier and safer than if you do it yourself.  (A bad engineer will have you putting in 2x the steel you need (2x the weight) annd a lot more work for no extra value.)

1. 
   HansonConstruction | Apr 11, 2008 05:51am | #10

   Thanks. That's good advice.

4. 
   Dudley | Apr 11, 2008 04:29pm | #11

   I did a similar job on my house 3 years ago -- brick and 4" block on interior created a 7 foot opening

   I went on the outside, found the sport the steel lintel would go and removed 3 course of brick above. My brick bond was header every 5 course so the header courses helped.  Installed the lintil -- and then remove the bricks beneath the lintil.  Kept the 4" bock wall in place until the brick was totally  removed and finished. Then moved to the inside and did the same thing for the block wall - removed the course above the elevation the interior lentil would go and then bricked that up so the block above the lentel would be fully supported.

   Then remove the blocks beneath the interior lintel -- worked like a charm - Dudley

1. 
   HansonConstruction | Apr 11, 2008 05:38pm | #12

   Thanks. That would work, except that in my case the wall is 1005 years old and the mortar is failing. I'd have a collapse if I took out a long course of bricks.