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Cutting tips for large formica sheet

| Posted in General Discussion on August 8, 2001 10:04am

*
I’ve got a 12′ by 5′ piece of formica laminate that I have to cut pretty much down the middle the long way. I’m thinking my circular saw with a 60 tooth blade would be the way to go on this (cut with good side down), but am open to any suggestions. Jig saw? Router? Knife?

As well, how do I hold this thing down while I make a (strait, clean) cut on it? It is rolled in a big tube right now. My usual set up can handle a 4×8 sheet (plywood, I mean, this is my first stab at laminate), but 5×12 is a bit overwhelming.

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  1. Greg_Brown | Aug 03, 2001 05:27pm | #1

    *
    Roger, If you want a straight, clean rip down the middle of a 5 x 12 your best method would be a panal router. next, 12' straigt edge & a router. When you say "clean cut" that means router. A saw can give you a straight cut, but not a clean cut.

    1. Tracer | Aug 03, 2001 07:34pm | #2

      *And a word of warning. Don't be like me and cut a nice straight cut only to snap the Formica piece in half while taking it around a corner!

      1. Dave_Richeson | Aug 03, 2001 09:48pm | #3

        *Is the cut edge a finished edge? If you are going to trim it agian after the glue up, it doesn't need to be such a nice clean cut. Above sugestion are correct, but there is also a hand shear for laminate. It is a lot slower than power tools but the set up is just marking your cut line on the laminate. You then cut it just like you were using tin snips or scissors. Not the cleanest cut of your choices, but ok for roughing to near your slab size. I find the hand cutters to be faster, most of the time, than the set up time for a router or table saw rip. There is also a lot less likelyhood of something going wrong, as can happen with a power tool and little experience with large sheets of laminate. The hand cutter is about $20 at your local supply house. You didn't buy a 5x12 from a big box store, right?

        1. RJT_ | Aug 03, 2001 10:13pm | #4

          *If you do it with the circular saw set the blade only enough to cut thru and then run it backwards against a straight edge, if necessary.

          1. Roger_Martini | Aug 03, 2001 10:16pm | #5

            *Yes and no on the finished edge. Most will be trimmed, but part of this cut will form a butt joint for an L-shaped counter. For this reason, I would prefer a clean cut. However, my table saw fence only goes to 24" so I'm down to router or circular saw. I don't even have any 12' stock around to use as a clamped guide, so the shears is starting to sound pretty good and I can just retrim the edge where the butt joint will be. The rest will be trimmed with a router once glued to the countertop.Any more advice out there?

          2. Roger_Martini | Aug 03, 2001 10:17pm | #6

            *I take it you mean mount the blade backwards in the saw?

          3. Jim_Walters | Aug 03, 2001 11:19pm | #7

            *I cut formica all the time with my unisaw....raise the blade about 3/4...cut with good side up. I attach a three foot or so piece of ply to my fence and make sure its tight on the deck (if the formica can get under it, you're in trouble.) I also clamp a piece of 1x onto the fence and leave it about 1/4 or less off the table so the formica can slide under it (it keeps the formica from rising) I use an old 8 1/2 compound mitre blade to cut it. I wouldn't be doing any backwards stuff or get funny around that blade when it cuts perfectly fine with the blade set up normal....feed it slow and have a good off table behind the saw. I have a 4x8 table that the stuff slides onto after the cut. That's important.

          4. Tim_Kline | Aug 03, 2001 11:55pm | #8

            *b WBA At Your ServiceYes, Roger, those shears work pretty darn good. I have a pair, and they definitely can do what you want. When I have a 5' wide sheet, I rough cut it with the shears first, and then come back and finish trim to exact size with the shears again. The shears do not cut like tin snips, so it is best to leave yourself about a half inch of excess for final trimming. You'll see what I mean when you buy them and experiment a little. You can even trim short of your pencil line and then belt sand to perfection.

          5. Michael_McK | Aug 04, 2001 02:46am | #9

            *First off you should stick laminate to the edge of the top first, this will require another long rip. Then when you lay the laminate on the top face you will trim off excess with router. This router cut should be good enough for your butt joint, but if it does't trim close enough you can carefully sand the laminate flush. You should use draw bolts to secure the two pieces of the el together. This makes a very tight seam but requires more router work on the bottom of the counter.Also a hand file works well for trimming that last tiny bit of laminate and easing the edges.Mike

          6. calvin_ | Aug 04, 2001 11:43am | #10

            *I would have my deck made up first, already L'd (seam opp. where the lam will be seamed), cut the sheet free hand w/circ saw (well supported underneath, find the best fac. edge and hand file the seam to fit and glue it up. Get a seam guide if you have time and you will make shorter work of it. Best of luck.

          7. Dave_Richeson | Aug 04, 2001 01:57pm | #11

            *Tim, I mean the shear use a compound action like tin snips.Roger, you are getting excellent advice here. Now if you are a tool junky like most of us, here is an opportunity for you to buy some more toys. As mentioned, you can lap the laminate and cut the seam for the butt joint with a router. Another option is route one side of the joint using a straight edge and glue it in place. Then buy a Bosh laminate trim kit and use the under scribe atttachment that come with it. You rough cut the second piece and clamp it in place with about a 1/2 to 3/4 overlap of the first piece. The undesribe attachment on the trim router then rides on the glued edge and scibe cuts the top piece to an exact match. I think DeWalt and Porter Cable make similar attachments for thier trim routers. I have made about 30 L shaped tops using my Bosh trim router in the last 10 years.So, if you are a tool junky, and need an excuse to buy one..... Mine was about $185 ten years ago. Tool Crib has the delux trim installers kit for $239.Just another way to "skin a cat"Dave

          8. Joseph_Fusco | Aug 04, 2001 02:34pm | #12

            *Roger,

            You might want to rethink how to fabricate the "butt" joint on the "L" shaped counter-top. You might also want to take the time to make a jig to cut the "edges" of both mating pieces so they match perfectly when joined.

            View Image © 1999-2001"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle

          9. calvin_ | Aug 04, 2001 08:55pm | #13

            *Joe, you suggesting he mitre the corner? And did you ever give the dimensions of the L, Roger. If under 5 Ft or with a cutout within 5 Ft, you can maybe seam it where it won't show much (less seam to fit).

          10. Hugh_Everding | Aug 04, 2001 09:35pm | #14

            *The safest way to cut a sheet of laminate is to lay it out on a clean floor,making sure it has been swept clean, mark it out with a dark marker and cut out with a hand held router with a bevel trim bit. Elevate the laminate with a 2x4 to prevent binding. Round out all corners. A square cut is bound to break on you.

          11. Joseph_Fusco | Aug 04, 2001 09:41pm | #15

            *Calvin,

            No, that's just more of a pain in the ass. I'm saying that to two pieces of mica the will meet need to have near perfect edges as anyone who does counters will attest to. No matter how well he cuts it with a saw the two piece will show some "space" when you put them together.What's done most times is the edge is put into a jig that a router will follow to make a "straight" clean cut. You can make a jig the will cut both edges at the same time which will in effect make a positive edge on one piece and a negative edge on the other insuring a perfect fit. . . well most of the time anyhow.

            View Image © 1999-2001"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle

          12. Dave_Richeson | Aug 05, 2001 04:55am | #16

            *Joe, that is why I suggested the Bosh laminate trim kit. You cut the first piece and glue it to the slab. I usualy use a router and a straight edge for that cut. I mask off the area adjacent to the joint and glue the first peice down. The under scriber that Bosh has in the kit is a seperate base with a small lip on the bottom and the trim bit is above it in a shallow depression. The second piece of laminate is rough cut and clamped in place with about 1/2 overlapp of the joint. The second piece is not glued at this point, so it must be clamped securley. The trim router is then run with the bottom lip of the shoe following the edge of the glued down first piece. The second piece is rideing above the shoe and the small bit is cutting it to match what it is following on the bottom. There is a also a small cam mechanism in the shoe so you can fine tune the bit alignment to the guide lipp.This system has served me well for over ten years now. It saves a lot of jig making and set up time as well as letting me use the slab as my work bench in a very small shop(28x26'garage). I mostly do custom tops using the perma-edge system from Wilsonart. Laminate joints on the surface are not much of a problem for me now with this system. It is the applied edge joint that can still occassionaly drive me nuts. I have also finaly learned to wear gloves or tape my fingers when working with the applied edges. That stuff will slice you open like a surgons scapel.As I mentioned earlier, I think DeWalt and PC have something similar for thier trim routers. They aren't gimmicks, they work.Dave

          13. Joseph_Fusco | Aug 05, 2001 05:10am | #17

            *Dave,

            Thanks for the feedback. I have the PC trim kit and it has a slitter and offset base and the gizmo you speak of. The only trouble is I've never used it. I'm so well tuned at make the cuts with a jig that I never bother to even try it.Well after read your comments I going to have to get it a whirl and see if I can get as good of a result as you.Thanks again.

            View Image © 1999-2001"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle

          14. Greg_Brown | Aug 05, 2001 05:38am | #18

            *dave- I have the original "Betterly" underscriber- an aftermarket base that was designed to go on P.C. lam trimmers. I always glue both pieces down at the same time. Spray glue on all parts, put lam with good edge on first, overlap second piece of lam like you said, but on the glue. The sub base seperates the two pieces of lam, If your trimmer is adjusted right it falls right into position. Only benefit I see doing it your way is if you boo-boo you can always try it again.

          15. Dave_Richeson | Aug 05, 2001 03:12pm | #19

            *Greg, I think most of what I have learned,up untill I srarted visiting breaktime, was by making boo-boos. The problem I had with gluing both pieces down was getting the laminate "saw dust " stuck under the second piece or in the joint. The other problem I incountered was that the base would drag on the glue. That resulted in either a slight ripple in the finsh cut or a big "oh poop". That is why I mask off the cut line on the side of the second piece. After the first piece is down, I remove the tape and have a good smooth surface for the base to ride on.

          16. Keith_C | Aug 05, 2001 05:29pm | #20

            *Oxy-acetylene torch work well for cutting large sheets. When the fire department, and insurance co. gets done you then design the tops so that you don't have to deal with such large sheets. Problem solved. You guys make EVERYTHING so complicated.

          17. zayd | Aug 06, 2001 01:08am | #21

            *I am a laminator. what we do in our shop is; 1) core up the top, making sure that the section with the sink cutout is on a full peice of wood2) put the counter on sawhorses, 3) place and clamp the laminate on the countertop with 1 inch overhang on the 2 outside edges, 4) cut along the inside edges with a 1/4" overhang straight cutter, be sure to cut diagonally across the inside corner, 5) use the cutoff to make the other part of the "L", 6) put the seam where the sink cutout will be, that way, you only have 4" seam total, 7)use a seamer on a laminate trimmer, or use a straightedge to cut both peices at the same time.8) glue the two peices and the core, stick one peice and roll it, lay the other peice and leave one stick in about 6" from the seam, roll the rest, take the stick out and roll it towards the seam. flush trim and bevel the whole top. put the edge on before the top if it is a self edge, if it is a bevel edge top, put the top on first, then the bevel. hope this helps

          18. Bill_Ha. | Aug 06, 2001 02:15am | #22

            *Roger, I cut a long piece once while keeping it coiled up from the distribute. They had it tied with twine which I removed and used 2" masking tape on either side of cut line. Set up fence for desired dimension, raise blade about 1" or enough to cut the inside end which is likely not in contact with the next revolution and simply rotate or spin the roll in front of blade. Make sure that both sides are well taped. You don't want any uncoiling surprises while the blade is spinning. This turned out quite well but perhaps not clean enough for your butt joint.

          19. Hugh_Everding | Aug 06, 2001 06:08am | #23

            *Dear Roger: After all this fine advice from so many people,I'm just dying to know how you made out??/ Should I send you a new 5X12 from my supplier up here in Calgary CANADA???

          20. calvin_ | Aug 07, 2001 03:38am | #24

            *Hugh, too seldom do they come back and report. It's like one big serial movie, only we never get to see the ending. Usually the thread takes off in another direction first. It's enyoyable to here the whole story sometimes. Maybe Paul Harvey.

          21. Tom_Moller | Aug 07, 2001 05:29am | #25

            *FWIW Most of the good circular saw blade manufacturers make carbide tip blades with a negative rake on the teeth especially for cutting laminates. They produce a smoother cut with very little chipping of the surface. You still need to use a router, but the negative rake blades let you rough cut much closer so there is less material for the router to cut through.When cutting lam on a table saw, it is best to have infeed and outfeed tables large enough to support the entire sheet. Without even support, it is very easy for a sheet to tear like paper.

          22. Tom_Moller | Aug 07, 2001 05:35am | #26

            *If you intend to cut only one sheet in this century, you can use the scoring tool that is marketed for cutting Hardibacker. Just drag it along a straightedge a few times and the sheet will separate nicely.

          23. Roger_Martini | Aug 07, 2001 03:12pm | #27

            *Thanks for all the good advice. I will be cutting this monster today or tomorrow and will let you know if I have to order another sheet or not :) I like the advice about keeping the edges round to prevent tears, and the discussion about mating the butt joints--hadn't thought enough about that. I designed it so the butt is under the cooktop--only 4" visible as someone mentioned doing with sinks.An aside, can anyone tell me how big a lump or run in the contact adhesive is acceptable before it telegraphs through the laminate?

          24. Roger_Martini | Aug 07, 2001 03:38pm | #28

            *We'll see if I need a new sheet, but I think the manufacturer is a little closer to Ottawa than you are. Besides, that Alliance formica from Calgary would probably refuse to stick to the Liberal plywood we get here.cheers

          25. Michael_McK | Aug 08, 2001 02:04am | #29

            *Roger,If you are using Standard vs Vertical Laminate which you should (Standard is thicker), there will not be much that will telegraph through. A stray piece of laminate chip from router will cause problems though. If you find a bump after sticking the laminate try knocking it back down using a hammer with a hardwood block to spread the impact.As for runs in the contact adhesive... it should never be thick enough to run. If you have thick layers of adhesive on both pieces it will seperate much more easily. Mike

          26. RJT_ | Aug 08, 2001 05:34am | #30

            *No, the blade (a regular carbide 24 tooth)is in the correct way, but you run the saw backwards with the good side of the laminate up. You can lay the laminate on the floor on top of styrofoam or enough cardboard so that the blade just cuts thru the lam without contacting the floor. You will have to find a way to get on top of the lam without scratching or cracking it.

          27. L._Siders | Aug 08, 2001 08:36am | #31

            *I rip down laminate all the time on my uni saw. I have an in-feed and out-feed tables that are 3' X 6'. I also put a 36" piece of aluminium angle clamped against the fence to keep the laminate from going under the fence. I use a 60 tooth blade. I build my counter top slabs and take them to a friends counter top shop and he cuts my miters. I route the dog bones for the draw bolts and pull the joints using titebond II glue. I then dress up the joint with seam fil. Most of my tops are 1.25" thick. The back splash I put on with 6d rosen coated nails. (pre-drill for the nails) Where the sink will be I use aluminium nails so its easier to cut out the sink hole. I have a few other trick but I would have to show ya them..

          28. Greg_Brown | Aug 08, 2001 10:04am | #32

            *I have found when pulling seams together it's easier for me when I use liquid hide glue- the hide glue gives you lots of working time to get the seams flush. seems like yellow glue flashes real quick when clamped.

  2. Roger_Martini | Aug 08, 2001 10:04am | #33

    *
    I've got a 12' by 5' piece of formica laminate that I have to cut pretty much down the middle the long way. I'm thinking my circular saw with a 60 tooth blade would be the way to go on this (cut with good side down), but am open to any suggestions. Jig saw? Router? Knife?

    As well, how do I hold this thing down while I make a (strait, clean) cut on it? It is rolled in a big tube right now. My usual set up can handle a 4x8 sheet (plywood, I mean, this is my first stab at laminate), but 5x12 is a bit overwhelming.

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