We have to move a two story vault and need to cut a bunch of welds in order to do it. They can’t be torched because we need to keep as much metal as we can to re weld it when we put it back together.
Any ideas?
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I'd plan on a lot of cut off discs and a small grinder. Just get the cheap HF ones in the 10 pack. Thin is better. I think they are 1/16" and last about as long as the more exp. dewalts.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
nah, he really needs a 6" grinder like a metabo the little wheels just don't have enough useful area and the metabo is easy to hold and quieterI'm gonna take a nap.....yawn.
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Wake up and go help him, ya bum.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
yeah....... maybe next weekhey I'm picking a new ride today, a shiny red '95 Chevy pick'em up.
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I'm pulling my hair out trying to build the next to impossible.
My 95 GMC is over 316,000...hope yours is rode less.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
jeezus, then mine's almost brand new with only 100K.
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1) A seven inch grinder with a cutting wheel
2) A scarfing tip on an oxy-acetylene torch
https://www.mythermadyne.com
3) An arc gouger
https://www.mythermadyne.com
A scarfing tip on a torch requires a bit of skill to use, and is rather inefficient, but probably better than a bunch of grinding. An arc gouger requires a substantial air compressor, a welding machine, and some skill.
Edited 2/6/2009 11:36 am ET by McMark
Sounds like a false choice to me.....a good torch man can cut just as cleanly as a bad hand with a grinder. If the cuts are the right kind, a plasma cutter (I guess that's an "arc gauger" to some here" ) is good.
Whatever, be careful, esp. if you chose to use grinders.....leave the guards on, proper PPE...A few Breaktimers saw what mis-handled grinders can do recently.....
If the cuts are the right kind, a plasma cutter (I guess that's an "arc gauger" to some here" )
Absolutely not. A plasma cutter uses shop air entrained in a electrical arc plasma to melt and remove the base metal. A arc gouger uses a electric arc developed between a carbon and copper electrode and the base metal to melt the material, which is swept out by a large volume of shop air. They are completely different. Plasma cutters are typically used on thinner gauge material, and scarfing tips and arc gougers are specificaaly made to bemove welds.
On a vault, cutting may not be possible, because of the thickness of the panels, and fireproofing. In this case the process used is scarfing.
i agree with you about the plasma, and while air arcing would do the trick it's pretty darn noisy and creates a ton of smoke which would probably set off every smoke alarm in the building along with scaring the bejeezus out of everyone.
It sure is fun to play with though.
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ZZZZZZ, ........ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, .......... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
..ZZZ...... ZZZZZZZZ........... ZZZZZZZ.
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You suck. LOL
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
heheheheh, I know, but I'm up now hit the rack at 2030 last night.
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Want to earn a little extra money in your new found leasure time? I could probably get you hired to cut all those welds. Nine at night, till five in the morning. If I remember right I think he has it figured at two weeks.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
who buys the beer ? and I'll need a cot.
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It's a pharmaceutical warehouse. Who needs beer? The scissors lift can double as a cot.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
WTF , I ask for a cot, and right away I get downgraded to the lift, now I want a room with a TVI thought you were doing this ?.
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man I thought you were kidding.
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I probably won't have anything to do with it. The boss brought it up in our morning shoot the bull session and was asking if anyone could figure out a way to cut the welds efficiently without losing a lot of metal. I hope to never go to the site. That's the great part about having skills.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
Edited 2/7/2009 9:27 am ET by Gunner
Where do I start? I'll bring my grinder.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Nice commute.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
Welllll
An arc, and shop air.....sounds pretty much the same to me, just a matter of scale, maybe how the arc is struck.....What's a "scarfing tip" ?
A plasma cutter must cut thru the material. An arc gouger does not really cuts, it roughly removes.
To answer your question with a question, is MDF and a LVL the same thing? Is mortar and concrete the same? Is a Mack truck and a Smart Car the same thing? Is a saw and a cold chisel the same tool?
Ease up, fella, and in real terms, describe how an arc gauger differs from a plasma cutter. inquiring minds want to know.
For extra credit, under what circumstances do you want a tool the "roughly removes" metal.
And I still don't know what a "scarfing tip" is.......
Click the Pic.
View ImageSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
OK....
Did you just Google that, or can you expound at length on the subject?
All I know is it blows the slag out as it cuts..or something like that.
here is what the patent says.
A scarfing torch adapted for manual manipulation which includes means disposed in said torch to provide a component of force upon the torch to offset forces upon the torch generated either by the flow of oxygen gas used in the scarfing process or gravity. The offsetting force is provided by the release of a secondary fluid from the torch in the appropriate direction. The secondary fluid may be released to impinge upon the surface of the workpiece being scarfed.
clear as mud?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Ease up, fella, and in real terms, describe how an arc gauger differs from a plasma cutter. inquiring minds want to know.For extra credit, under what circumstances do you want a tool the "roughly removes" metal.And I still don't know what a "scarfing tip" is.......
Junior bj,
Geez, you're a little needy aren't you? The fact of the matter is, if you are reading this, you're sitting at a computer. You can google up plasma cutting and arc gouging (and for gods sake learn how to spell it) and quit petulantly demanding that others do it for you. I don't have to do my homework in this case, you do.
Here is a hyperlink to a site which shows and explains some of the differences. In this case they are discussing plasma gouging, but the differences are the same. And still, in the field, plasma gouging is not as common as arc gouging.
http://www.thefabricator.com/PowerTools/PowerTools_Article.cfm?ID=1346
As you can see in the linked photo, gouging is cutting a groove or valley in the base metal. The term scarfing is typically used when a linear weld is gouged out. A scarfing tip is the tip used for gouging carbon steel when using a oxy-acetylene torch.
Vault panels can be substantially thick, and filled with fire-proofing and other insulation. These panels are then welded together. It this case, classic torch cutting with either a plasma or oxy fuel torch is not applicable, because one cannot cot through the panels. Here one must grind, gouge or scarf the weld metal out. These welds may be 1/2" thick (deep), but the panels can be up to three inches thick.
Geeze, lighten up....sure I can look it up, but sometimes it's quicker to ask the smart people like you here. From what I'm reading, PLASMA gouging is pretty much plasma cutting with a slightly less focused tip. Carbon arc gouging is a different animal (unless you consider that the arc is just another form of plasma...)
FWIW, I've been there for the taking apart of a vault.....in this case, the layers were screwed together, with a layer of what seemed to be sulfur in-between them. And we did burn through them. Took a whole lot of gas. So, if you're the expert, don't be so sure you know it all....just 'cause I can't spell worth cr@p doesn't mean I'm stoopid...... but thanks for the link......
The doors my kid is cutting the hinges off are 1/8" plate on all six sides. They're about 500 lbs apiece and are sliders. They're cored, but I don't know with what. Says the plasma goes through the welds like a hot knife through butter, with a little clean-up. They also use the pasma for 1/4" plate on window mounts.
See if you can find a plasma cutter. My kid has been cutting hinges off of steel prison doors and re-welding them in a different position. Says it makes a hair line cut. You gotta grind the rest off though...
We have to move a two story vault and need to cut a bunch of welds in order to do it. They can't be torched because we need to keep as much metal as we can to re weld it when we put it back together.
Two storeys? How thick are the panels? How big is this vault? Should a vault guy do it?
Two storeys? How thick are the panels? How big is this vault? Should a vault guy do it?
It's in a pharmaceutical warehouse, the panels are only a couple of inches thick, they are made out of reinforced concrete. It's a big freaking vault we put it up about three or four years ago and it took about a month start to finish. Which answers your last question. We are the vault guys.
The need to take the vault back down doesn't come up that often and normally we cut the welds with a die grinder. But with one this size we are trying to figure out a way to do it neatly and efficiently.
Modular vaults like this one are held together by metal tabs on the corners. You weld the tabs together. To move it we have to cut the weld and do it neatly because we have to weld it back together when we get it to it's new home. (Across the street.)
The plan is to cut all the welds free on the inside then go to the back and as they cut the welds on the back side of the panel free take that panel down.
To be honest with you I hope I never see it. Too much tedious work in the same spot for me. More then a couple days at the same location and I go nuts.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
This is probably a taboo question to ask a "vault guy", but what would a pharmaceutical company keep in a 2 story vault?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
The good stuff.......The really good stuff.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
Sounds like you are gonna right into the downside of being the "Go To Guy"!!!be embracing the suck bro....
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
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according to statistical analysis, "for some time now, bears apparently have been going to the bathroom in the woods."
That's part of the gig. Keeps me fed baby.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
I rethought the question and my answer. My new answer is. No that would make you guys the Go to guys. :)
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
The problem is they've got to do it in the middle of the night, without waking the night watchman.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
If there is enough room, consider a metal cutting circular saw... or a metal cutting blade on a cordless.
Much less time than the grinder route, no grit and no sparks.
Noisy as heck, though.
The guards are different on a dedicated metal cutting saw, and a wood saw will not have chip collection. Wear a face shield if you do not use a dedicated metal cutting saw... you have been warned :)
You can get a portable Miller plasma cutter that has a built in compressor... and runs off a 20A 110V circuit for around $1k. Those are cool :)
Edited 2/6/2009 6:39 pm ET by danski0224
I'm going to check into the saw and the Plasma cutter. They both sound like the ticket at this point.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
2 wordsbi-metal hacksaw blades.OK 3 you will have arms like Popeye when you are done!!in 2025....
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
.
.
.
If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
.
.
.
according to statistical analysis, "for some time now, bears apparently have been going to the bathroom in the woods."
Less likely to wake the night watchman too. Now does anyone know how to disable the back up alarm on a scissors lift?
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
Edited 2/7/2009 9:40 am ET by Gunner
duct tape.
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Good idea.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
you gonna back him out into an intersection while he's asleep???.
.
"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
.
.
.
If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
.
.
.
according to statistical analysis, "for some time now, bears apparently have been going to the bathroom in the woods."
Shhh.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA
any good stories from this job yet???.
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
.
.
.
If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
.
.
.
according to statistical analysis, "for some time now, bears apparently have been going to the bathroom in the woods."
It starts in a couple of weeks.
C'mon C'mon and do..... The locomotion with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3sCNRnn7GA