Replies

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Jan 30, 2004 07:27pm | #1

   My experience with tracking software/devices is that it slows down the workers. I've worked with daily logs, PDA's, portable time clock/job tracking calculators. I find that timesheets with 'gridsquares' that they can fill in the # of hours on projects works better.   Not quite as accurate as a daily time log, but quicker.  A daily 'as you go' log will CYA in alot of situations.  You can input this to exel or do access database for manipulating, also, I think quickbooks has a time tracking feature.

1. 
   JerraldHayes | Jan 31, 2004 03:27am | #2

   Craig re: "My experience with tracking software/devices is that it slows down the workers." I'm not trying to pick a fight or be argumentative but I think that a myth and just an excuse that most contractors use (or rationalize to themselves) for not collecting production data. We work with PDAs tracking task times and other information (well maybe not 100%, one employee refuses to make the leap and he still records his information on paper).

   In the five or seven years I've been vocally advocating better methods for keeping track of data and hearing "slow workers down" excuse I never had anyone ever show me any empirical data to support that thinking.

   We had a discussion around this (more specifically regarding TimeCards) on JLC back in October of 2002 and back then I wrote:

   An example from outside our own industry:

   In the past two years I’ve read two books on FedEx The World on Time (The 11 management Principles That Made FedEx an Overnight Sensation) and just the other month Customer Culture (How FedEx and Other Great Companies Put the Customer First Every Day).

   In reading those two books and some others it my understanding that FedEx (and UPS) delivery drivers are paid by the truckload (or at least that is the major part of the compensation formula). If a driver delivers the truckload in 7 hours he makes more per hour than if it take 10. So the productivity of delivering as many packages as possible as fast as possible in hard in the mind of the delivery driver and yet they seem to be able to record information of When The Package Was Delivered and Who Signed for It with every single one of the packages they deliver in a day.

   Do the FedEx and UPS delivery drivers see the collection and entry of that data around 50 times a day as “too much of a pain in the ####?” I’m really sorry but the PITA argument in my mind is patently absurd. And like so many of the other arguments you hear against the adoption. of good business practices the PITA reasoning is just an excuse.

   No they don’t see it as a PITA they see it as “PART OF THE JOB”. If you don’t make keeping accurate time card records PART OF THE JOB then all it is to your employees is a PITA.

   Really think about. First of all it takes maybe a minute for an employee to pull a timecard out of there pocket and write down “8am-11:30am Doors”. Was that so hard? If these people can get mortgages for their home or car loans and help their children by filling out financial aid applications to colleges then they can certainly fill out a timecard. A minute or two of time three or four times a days is a PITA?

   If they don’t see any advantage to doing it as they are going along during the day they can certainly do it at the end of the day. Is that a PITA? Or is just plain keeping Timecard records period a PITA?

   Regarding “Some days can be pretty hectic, with multiple tasks.” Well not really at least on average form what I been able to see having collected this kind of information for years. Yeah every once in a while you get a day with multiple activities but even then days with more that eight differing activities are very rare. In my company it’s my own TimeCard that has the most different activities most often and the kind of data I record for both my company and myself is a lot more specific and detailed than the data set that Peter’s employees are recording.

   In my company I want to know are you installing doors? Base trim? Cornice? Installing Curved Woodwork? Etc whereas in Peter’s company all those groups come under one heading,…Millwork. It all depends on the company and what you need the information for. Knowing how much time my employees spend on Millwork is useless in that that is 98% of what we do. I need to know what kind of millwork operation was taking place.

   In Peter’s case where his employees do all sorts of general stuff (he’s a “General Contractor” where I am an “Architectural Woodworker”) that kind of specificity might be overkill. Even then though I will bet that real world data will show you patterns of work where a guy was installing doors from Monday till 11am on Thursday morning when he switched to Installing Base Molding.

   How do you know the patterns of work until you record and analyze the data? In keeping all of these timecard records what has been most reveling to me is not what my employees are doing but what I am actually doing. The disparity between what I think I’ve been working on and getting done and the reality of what I actually do is sometimes astounding.

   There are periods of time where for weeks I spend 20 to 30 hours a week just driving around!

   The TimeCard application I wrote is a Tool. More specifically management tool for analyzing the TimeCard data your collecting. Like any tool the choice as to how accuratly you are going to use it is up to you. I have a circular saw and I can use it to cut with 1/4” accuracy or to 1/16”. It’s my choice.

   Even if it was true that having employees recording task information did "slow" them down how much could it possibly slow them down? The data it collects is so much more important and valuable that even if it did slow them down it (the data) would surely still be worth it. In fact we've found that the collection of the data showed us as a company where time was being lost or wasted and it's helped us eliminate or streamline those problem areas. You can't see what going wrong with out collecting data regarding what happening. As I mentioned in that text I wrote back on JLC I was shocked to find out just how much time I really did spend driving around. My guess before seeing the real data would have be maybe 8 hours so my conclusion is we tend to deceive ourselves and fool ourselves regarding what's really going on and how we spend out time.

   Whatever the system is it's got to be simple and easy to use. I think the key is in something Einstein once said "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. "

   "A daily 'as you go' log will CYA in alot of situations".  On that count you are 100% right on. Just having those accurate job records can save you from or even win you a lot of arguments. I think it one of the smartest things a contractor can do.

   Back in the 80's before I ever went computerized I used to buy these hardcover "Construction Manager" log books from Prentice Hall publishing but years ago I took the idea further and made the essentially the same thing only as a FileMaker database system. The advantage then being that the data was entered once and could then be shared by other modules in the system and it could be easily searched too.

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1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Jan 31, 2004 10:32am | #4

   Jerrald,

   You do make some good points.  One of the decisions you must make on tracking time is how involved do you need to be?  I've been on both ends- user and manager. 

   Does it make sense to compile alot of data on 2 guys who you likely are in reasonable contact with throught the day, spend X amount of hours manipulating the data, or pay someone to do it, to save a few dollars?  Not to mention how many trees will loose their lives with all that data printed out.   The only person whom can answer that question is the person that needs to collect the data and why?

   For example, I once worked in a shop - lets use the example of laying out a cabinet and trimming a peice to fit- where you had to stop, change the code on the calculator from layout to cutting,cut the board, then change back to layout.  The process took about 3 minutes for a 45 second task of turning around and using the miter saw to make a cut.  Is this effective to track the movements to this point?  It depends on how much of a problem you have, how much time ,money and resources you are willing to invest to track down the deficiencies, and correct it.  If you are working on layout for 2 hours, it is 2 hours.  Does it matter that you did layout for 1 hour 33min 2 sec, cut for 11 min, 53 sec, machining for 10 min 7 sec, and cleanup for 5 minutes?  IT is still 2 hours of layout on the job. +/- a few minutes

   Bottom line is that the system is only as good as the upkeep and participation of the employees and maintenance of the data by the management. 

   Do you want something inexpensive and easy or expensive and very involved--

   I can't answer that question, but I know what level I need for my situation. 

2. 
   sphaugh | Jan 31, 2004 04:50pm | #5

   Jerrald,

   That experience sounds eerily familiar.  At my office (architecture firm) we keep track of every sheet of paper we print.  Whether it's printing email or sketches or whatever, nothing's free.  Previously, we used a manual "log" - a sheet of paper to keep track of prints.  Trouble is, that rarely happened.  We now use an app called Technesis, it  won't let you print or plot w/o entering a job number.  The money we've saved by not letting it slip away... is unreal.

   Doing it the way you always have done it, isn't always better...

   Edited 1/31/2004 8:52:30 AM ET by SPHAUGH

2. 
   jonblakemore | Jan 31, 2004 04:41am | #3

   Beac,

   I think your questions are very broad for a little spreadsheet.  It seems to me that you want to computerize your whole office operations.  Don't get me wrong, I think you would be doing yourself a huge favor to get this stuff computerized, but I think this will require alot of work.  I don't have alot of experience with the commercially available systems so hopefully some others will chime in.

   I realize that you didn't raise the objections to the amount of time that tracking hours would take, but I would like to address that also.  If you found a way to integrate your estimating format with the level of detail of the information you desire on the time card I believe it could be very efficient.  You could use the CSI codes to estimate, or you could come up with your own.  Then, print out a time sheet every week, every job, or however it works best for you with the numbers and task listed, then a space to record the amount of time that each task took.  This could even be used to manage the workers activities during the day.  Hand out the cards every AM, then the guys know what to focus on.  As each task is completed,  they record the hours.

   Good Luck!

    

   Jon Blakemore