Replies

1. 
   mizshredder2 | Nov 27, 2005 07:44am | #1

   The reason to thinset mortar tiles in place and leave them alone for 24 hours without any foot traffic...is so they'll set up in place - i.e. not move in either the horizontal NOR vertical plane, when the installers come back to grout or customers walk on them.

   So, I don't believe the type of tile you've got is your primary concern here.  If I'm reading your post correctly, the issue is that your installers want to thinset mortar down the last 80 sq ft of tile, and then grout it the same day.

   Since it's Saturday nite now...and you're posting like they seek to finish the tail end of the tile install and grout tomorrow (a Sunday) - it seems you've hired some installers willing to cut corners and compromise...in order to "finish this weekend job".

   Red warning flags going up.

   DUM SPIRO SPERO:  "While I breathe I hope"

2. 
   TTF | Nov 27, 2005 08:11am | #2

   The real issue is that the tile can break loose during the grouting process. When possible, I will wait at least a day. That being said, I have grouted tile / syone after 6 or 8 hours with not problems. Also, travetine functions like most tile.

   Ask them how they will prevent breaking the tile loose. They should lay down pieces of plywood to distribute their weight when they are grounting the newer stuff.

    

3. 
   FastEddie | Nov 27, 2005 08:33am | #3

   If they walk on the tiles too soon, the bond between the thinset and the tile can be broken which will result in loose tiles in a few weeks.  The chemical bond is fragile for about 24 hours, so it is best to just stay off the tiles.

   It would be best if the grout were mixed up in one batch only.  Otherwise, there is a chance of mixing with different ratios of powder to water, which could result in slightly different shades of color.  It happens, and ther is usually a question here about every six months about why the grout is more than one color.

   If they are going to seal the grout, be sure to read and follow the label directions.  Usually the sealer says to wait 48 hours or more before sealing.

   Stand your ground and make them follow the mfgr instructions.  If they insist on doing it their own way, ask them if they are willing to provide a written warrantee that notes that they did not follow the directions.

   This is probably a prime situation where you want to hold part of the money for a few days to be sure everything works out right.  The grout will slowly change color for a day or so as it dries, and you might find some surprises (cracked tile, excess thinset or grout) after living with it for a day or to.

    

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/27/2005 12:44 am ET by FastEddie

4. 
   JeffBuck | Nov 27, 2005 10:47am | #4

   What are the dangers of allowing them to grout so quickly after installation, particularly with this type of stone?

    

   the real dangers are home owners and other diy'er pretending they know what the dangers are because they once grouted a tile floor.

   much like some of the replies so far in this thread.

   red flags my a$$.

    

   for thousands of years tiles have been set in a "wet set" method ... this the bedding and grout layers combined as one. There is no problem combining the two ... as long as the thinset anhd grout are compatable. 99.99%of the time ... they are.

   any tile professional will commonly tell customers ... Don't walk on ...

   for X numbers of hours or days ... while "walking on" said tile during the installation.

   it's a matter of knowing where and when to step.

    

   I've grouted many a floor "early" ... and have never run a layer of plywood down before hand. Nor ... have I ever seen such.

   Let your installers do their job. Chances are ... they'll get it right.

   Jeff

       Buck Construction

    Artistry In Carpentry

        Pittsburgh Pa

1. 
   FastEddie | Nov 27, 2005 06:50pm | #5

   Can't sleep at 2:30 in the morning again Jeff?  I see a bunch of feisty posts from you.

   Have you ever done the wet set method?  I have not.  I would be concerned with moving the tiles while stepping on them.  Either twisting them out of alignment, or creating lippage.

   And I take exception to this ... while "walking on" said tile during the installation ... I always plan my layout sequence so I can work toward open areas.  Maybe that's why I take longer to lay tile than you do.  Sometimes I have areas that I can't do because of not being able to reach them.

   Maybe there's information missiong from the original question.  Maybe the installers are using quick set thinset.

     

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

2. 
   mizshredder2 | Nov 27, 2005 11:27pm | #6

   "the real dangers are home owners and other diy'er pretending they know what the dangers are because they once grouted a tile floor."

   "red flags my a$$."

   Well let's see Jeff.  Tile and grout.  Well I've cumulatively done thousands of square feet worth.  Floors, tub surrounds (whirlpool and standard tubs, shower enclosures and more), kitchen backsplashes.  I've used sanded, non-sanded, and epoxy grouts.  I've done mud beds.  I've done ceramic and marble.  Border patterns and mosaics in both also.  Custom designs of my own that had the banker forgetting we left out the f/p when we elevated the house from a slab design to sitting on 54 poured in place concrete piers to support over 3700 ft sq of house...

   The "tile pros" in Charleston came by my house in SC where I had personally done all the tile work...and offered me a job once they'd completed walking thru!   (If I wasn't plenty busy working as an engineer, perhaps I would have seriously considered it.)   Also, my DH at the time was working for a leading GC who did multimillion dollar homes in neighborhoods like SOB and on Hilton Head; so our friends in the trades - like the tile brothers - were no slouches.

   So bottom line, I stand by every thing I wrote in my first post to SHON.  

   I don't care that you have a difference of opinion or approach Jeff; my issue is your pizzing on a differing opinion BECAUSE it's from a DIYer (whom you make ASSumptions about) vs. when a difference of opinion or approach is posted by one of the "pros". 

   You make it repeatedly clear in this thread (and numerous others) that you bemoan the presence of homeowners and DIYers on this Forum.  Well get over it dude cause that reality isn't likely to change anytime soon.  IMHO it's that "MIX" of abilities, and personalities, that makes this Forum as great as it is!   So while I'm not always agreeing with things I see you post, I'm still glad you're here and wouldn't dream of broadly slandering you and the other pros here because of the half-azzed "professional work" I've seen done in too many homes in too many states. 

   be embracing reality

    

    

    DUM SPIRO SPERO:  "While I breathe I hope"

1. 
   JeffBuck | Nov 29, 2005 04:21am | #7

   "and offered me a job"

    

   for future reference ....

   that's the part where I always stop reading.

    

   Jeff

    

        Buck Construction

    Artistry In Carpentry

        Pittsburgh Pa

1. 
   TilemanCT | Nov 30, 2005 02:24am | #8

   On that last 80 sq/ft...they could use a quick set type thinset that cures in about 3 hours. It is a product made for same day installs and grouting. Some thinsets need a 48 hour cure and some stones need more than that. We could have a whole discussion on curing times and moisture meter readings. I just hope they used while thinset!