…to retain a barn foundation – how to do it?
there’s been about 6″ of movement on a concrete (unreinforced 80 year old 12″ thick) foundation on a bank barn – the water problem that caused the issue has been dealt with, now I need to stabilize things as they now lean – I figure to punch thru the wall about three feet down (where the concrete ends and a tile foundation begins)at three places across the 54′ face, then maybe use a threaded rod/bolt and a nut with a piece of iron channel as the retaining pieces – but what to do on the dirt side? –
dig back about 15′ or so and bury what? and secure it to the retainers how? –
give me something cheap and elegant! – RR tie? – cable? what designs have you used on retaining walls?
“there’s enough for everyone”
Replies
give me something cheap and elegant!
Rent a tuxedo for the day.
I think about sonotubes and triangles when something needs permanent shoring. I'm not getting a good mental picture of the situation so that's the best I can offer, other than a pair of cool cuff links and matching studs to go with the tux.
.... and matching studs to go with the tux.
I dunno... David doesn't strike me as the type to strut around with a couple guys.PaulB
http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com
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"...mental picture..."
10' high retaining wall/barn foundation is being pushed in - an 80 yo concrete slab pitched the wrong way channeled water to the foundation, and as it sunk and leaned the situation reinforced itself - remnants of the slab are gone, we'll fill and compact and pour a new slab pitched a bit to drain away from the foundation -
I need to make certain the leaning foundation wall is stabilized, and plan on tying it back to some hunks of something buried in undisturbed soil, using cables (I guess)
here's a picture of the top side - the foundation tiles are the opposite side of the wall shown in the picture in the first post -
View Image"there's enough for everyone"
OK, the size of the tile in that first photo had me confused, thinking it was brick. I think I'm understanding the situation better now, although I'd much prefer to see it first hand of course.
Keeping it cheap and simple, I believe I'd brace/buttress the foundation with 12/12 trusses, anchored to a concrete footing/pad, one per each, about every eight-twelve feet. I'd add a plywood stiffener to the hypotenuse.
You could have them made up, then shim each one to fit.
I've done enough similar kinds of work to feel confident that such a system would work quite well.
Edited 7/26/2009 11:28 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
If you are going to pour a new slab next the foundation wall could you use it to stablize the foundation? If the new slab is tied to the existing foundation on one side, reinforced with rebar and has a thickened slab with a small down turn keyed into the earth it should provide a lot of resistance to any lateral movement .
It would act like a beam laid on its side.
Since the slab is going in anyway...
that's an idea I hadn't thought of - I'm not sure of the physics, with the ties angled up from 3' down to maybe 1' down to the bottom of the key - I'll give it some thought - thanks - "there's enough for everyone"
I thought about that barn the other day, and wondered if you were gonna take a crack at fixing it. When I read your OP my first thought was that 3 dead men on a 54' wall isn't enough. If the wall is 10' tall by 54' long, that's 540 square feet. If it takes 10 PSF (a wild guess) to move the wall you'd need 5,400# of pull. That's 1,800# per dead man - A heck of a lot for a RR tie.For the dead men - Do you have any hedge trees? A section of truck sunk in the dirt would last a heck of a long time. You shot down the idea of buttresses. But what if you made some temporary ones to help push the wall out, then took them out?O.K. - Reading back over the OP I see you're just wanting to stabilize it. I was thinking that you wanted to pull it back in a bit. But 3 dead men still sounds light to me..BTW - The folks here at BT might like to see an overall picture of the barn, to give them an idea of what you're trying to save. I'm sorry to say that I'm not sure I ever took any pictures the day we walked through the place. Or if I did I can't find 'em.
When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.
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the Home Place...
View Image"there's enough for everyone"
I've done similar things to what Husbandman and JustinT described.I usually use a 12 length of re-bar welded to a couple feet of threaded rod, though. I'm too cheap to pay for 12 feet of threaded rod.
I just bend a key into the end of the threaded rod and bury it in a yard or so of concrete out in virgin soil. No cables or come-alongs necessary.
FWIW,
I am in agreement with SD, husbandmand and Justin T
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
I guess buttresses on the inside are out the question?
buttresses in inside would take up useful floor space - good thinking tho - thanks - "there's enough for everyone"
Core a hole from inside and run them telepole guy wire auger anchors into the dirt, and washer/grout it in. Or a mobile home tie down dirt auger screw.
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"
Jed Clampitt
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done it
Get some grader blades (used) for the inside, big eyebolt going outside the 1/2 inch aircraft cable to those big parking baracade blocks buried in the dirt outside. Grease all the cable and eyebolt.
ya - loop the cable thru the eyes and clamp? how do you get it taunt? tighten the nuts after everything is buried?"there's enough for everyone"
You use the proper size clamps for the cable and I used a come-along to tighten the cable. Tighten, grease backfill.Another idea from a retaining wall we built. Google "Duckbill Anchors". you drive them in with a jackhammer and when you pull on them they rotate 90 degrees and hold like heck.We were trying to put some thru a seam of yellow clay. Rock hard soil. so I took a piece of 1/2 inch rebar pounded a bit of a taper in one edge and used it as a pilot hole. The site super said I was wasting my time. The GC gave me a pat on the head when those anchors were 5 minutes each instead of 15 minutes of jacking for little gain.I was back at that house about a month ago and after 5 years still straight.
Not totally clear on what you have, but if I understand, you have an old block wall bowing in.
I would not try to be creative with cables etc.
I'd excavate the exterior, get some bottle jacks, jack up the structure above, straighten the wall, bust some holes in the top of the wall or cut out the top plate and grout in the webs of all the block. then re-parge interior and exterior real well.
Install drain and gravel back up to close to grade to alleviate any potential for future hydrostatic pressure.
If you are gonna do it to an 80 year old barn, mideswell do it right.
"do it right..."hmmm..... probably entails pushing the whole thing over and starting fresh - the retaining wall is solid (unreinforced) concrete with three rows of 12"X12"X3' tiles on top, on which the barn sets - I don't think there is any reasonable way to straighten what is there, the choice is make sure it is stable or replace - my first choice is to stabilize - I really think it is pretty stable the way it is, since we have done some drainage work and have removed the water issues that are at fault, but while we have it torn up, it's pretty easy to tie the wall back to some deadmen buried in undisturbed soil as an insurance policy for the next 50 years - then it's someone else's problem - "there's enough for everyone"
How high is the wall?
How about running another wall in front of it and filling in the cavity with grout?
I assumed it was block.
You could excavate it, push it forward and brace from the inside from top to bottom.
(pressure treated blocks from floor (put a shoe behind) up into the joists and block into the jois
That would brace the wall to the joists which should not be going anywhere.
I'd still backfill with gravel and install a drain.
Cable-ing to a dead man outside would work but I'd want to have a pretty solid block to secure to concrete) and then punch thru the wall and have an all thread thru a spreader block (like a 6x6) behind the wall. Crank it tight prior to backfill.
You still have to secure the all thread to a cable of sorts to attach to the deadman so it is some rigging but would work if sized properly.
I dont know how long or high the wall, dont know your soils, etc. You can swag it or do a little engineering on it.
I did a similar repair by digging out about 3' outside the foundation down to footing top (typical trench type width).
Every eight feet I dug a shallower trench perpendicular to the wall out to about twelve feet or so. The perpendicular trench was only deep enough to allow a cable from about the vertical center of the foundation wall (i.e. it wasn't as deep) At the outward end of the perpendicular trench I dug a hole about 3'x4' + - square and about same depth lower than the bottom of the perpendicular trench. That put the new deadmen in virgin soil.
I poured about a yard+ of concrete in each hole and set rebar loops in the mud.
I drilled holes through the wall at the bulge and put heavy steel plates (roughly 16" sqr) on the inside with galvanized eye bolts through the wall (cast eyes, not bent).
Using come-alongs, I pulled the wall back to straight.
Using old power line guy wire I made the connection as tight as I could between the wall and the deadmen, then cinched it up by tightening the nuts on the inside of the wall.
I did something similar to this a few years back that worked pretty well. We dug a trench along the length of the wall 10 feet away at a depth that matched the center of our wall needing repair. On the inside we placed 4" steel u channel and drilled a hole in it. I purchased 12 foot lengths of 3/4" allthread, sharpened the end and beat it through the wall and dirt from the inside until it was in the trench. We put a steel plate on the end of the allthread in the trench and secured it. We then poured concrete into the trench like a footer. On the inside I placed a washer and nut on the allthread over the steel channel and began tightening it. Over the next several weeks I was able to recover about 4" from the bow in the wall. I left everything in place and framed the wall around it.
Justin
Chance augers.
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