Replies

1. 
   ponytl | May 21, 2006 06:05pm | #1

   it depends on what you are trying to do... box it out... hang joists from it ect...

   an option i use is to weld 1/4" x 2"  flat stock on 24" centers across the webs of the I'beam  these can be punched vs drilled and that saves some work... I also will sometimes shoot the 2x wood to the beams with my hilti ramset gun and do no drilling or punching...  i work with as much steel as i do wood so  i never give it a second thought because i have the tools & welders already there.... cool thing about steel is it's never too short it just hasn't had enough welded onto it, plus with a little cutting & welding you can make one 20ft  I beam into a 40ft I beam...

   p

2. 
   gordsco | May 21, 2006 06:21pm | #2

   "any tips on drilling 100 or so holes through steel that thick?"

    

   HSS bits fair better in freehand drilling. Titanium and Cobalt bits are sharp but extremely brittle, in the past I have snapped a half a dozen or so of these $35 bits mid hole. Never again. I only use T&C bits in a drill press.

   HSS can be touched up on a grinder if you find it becoming dull, but overdiong it will trash them. Piloting the hole with a smaller bit works also but I usually only run pilots when I want a hole placed exactly.

   A decent heavy duty 1/2" drill running at a slow rate of speed works best. Heat will kill the bit quicker than anything.

   Use lots of oil and moderate pressure.

   If you are drilling these beams in place, arrange a decent platform to stand on, If a bit catches a burr, you don't want to be balanced on a stepladder.

   May neighbors respect You, and troubles neglect You.

   Gord

                           

    

    

3. 
   brownbagg | May 21, 2006 06:37pm | #3

   yes , they can be ordered with pre drilled holes, if the money is right. T dont think they drill each holes on commerical building
4. 
   davidmeiland | May 21, 2006 06:37pm | #4

   When you get a spec for the beam, get a spec for the attachment of the wood. Send the whole thing to the steel supplier and have them punch the holes. If you end up drilling a few it's not really a big deal, just get a series of bit sizes and remember to use a bunch of cutting oil.

   I used a steel beam recently as a floor girder with joists hung from it. The engineer punched a few buttons and determined that the bottom flange was strong enough to support the load, so the bolting was simply to keep the wood from falling off until we got the joists in. Took 9 half-inch bolts along a 32 foot beam, easy enough to drill by hand. If at all possible go this route if you are hanging joists.

1. 
   trident | May 22, 2006 02:12am | #17

   davidmeiland, thanks so much for the help.. much appreciated

5. 
   CloudHidden | May 21, 2006 07:07pm | #5

   There are drills with an electromagnetic base that will then operate like a drill press and let you get sufficient leverage to drill them. Not cheap. My steel erecting company had one. The steel supplier can also, as people said, pre-punch for you, which is a bargain if the flange is thick (mine were up to 1"). But only do that if the pattern was specified by the engineer.

   BTW, if you use one of the electro-magnetic types, especially upside down, chain it to the beam. If power kicks off, not only could it drop on your head, but you'd likely have bought an expensive pile of junk once it hit the ground.

   View Image

   ps. When we did this, we had two $30 bits, and while the other guy was drilling with one, I'd be sharpening the other. Got maybe five or six 1/2" holes between sharpenings, iir.

   
   

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   Edited 5/21/2006 12:10 pm ET by CloudHidden

1. 
   zak | May 22, 2006 12:58am | #15

   I'm curious about the bits you used with your mag drill.  When I was building bridges, we had a couple of the mag drills, used them almost constantly.  The drill bit used was a carbide tipped hole saw type thing, and cutting fluid was pumped in the center.  They cut fast, holes from 3/8" up to about 4" diameter, and would last for hundreds of holes if you were good enough to not break the teeth off (it took some skill).  I think the bits for 1/2" were around 50 or 60 bucks.

   The drill motor had an adapter for a standard 3 jaw chuck, but we rarely used it.

   Those drills are great, tough to kill.  To bad they cost $1000 and weigh about 70 lbs.zak

   "so it goes"

1. 
   CloudHidden | May 22, 2006 01:11am | #16

   If I recall, the guy whose drill it was had me go cheap be/c it was a one-time job. We just needed a few extra holes in the beam beyond what the predrilled ones, and they were 3/4" and so he recommended what he did, rather than a more expensive, longer-lasting bit. Twas 4 years ago, so memories are a bit vague.

2. 
   caseyr | May 22, 2006 06:58am | #20

   If you do decide you have to drill the holes, I would definately rent a magnetic-base drill. I have a small Jancy magnetic drill. Significantly faster than drilling with a Hole Hog - and you don't need a supply of wrist splints... The bits that I find best are the ones that are made specifically for the Jancy (and also the nearly identical Haugen) that use a set screw to hold them in a socket. It still amazes me how fast these things will cut when sharp. They are somewhat like a hole saw but with the flutes running the length of the drill bit and without a pilot drill in the center, rather there is a free floating pin in the central hole that raises up when in contact with the material being drilled so that a small amount cutting oil in the reservoir above flows down into the cut. A random choice from a Google search gives me this page (know nothing about this outfit
   (The cutters are shown near the bottom of the page):
   http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Magnetic_Drills_Cutters/Magnetic_Drills/jm101.htm

1. 
   zak | May 22, 2006 07:53am | #21

   I think you meant to reply to someone else, but your jancy setup sounds similar to what I'm used to using.  Milwaukee calls them "steel hawg" cutters.  In our setup, we didn't use a small amount of cutting oil, we used gallons of coolant/lubricant, or "milk".  just soluble oil and water, pumped through the drill arbor by a little spray bottle.zak

   "so it goes"

6. 
   Matt | May 21, 2006 07:40pm | #6

   Around here steel suppliers cater to new construction and not only size to length and drill as specified but supply the bolts too.

7. 
   Framer | May 21, 2006 08:06pm | #7

   "Anybody know if these beams can be ordered with pre-drilled holes for this method."

   Yes they can.Just tell them what is specked and they will do exactly that.

   Ask your Lumberyard about "Betterheader". They send the I-beams and any other beams with wood and flitch plates in between them already done for you. You just have to see what the difference it is for your time to pack all these I-beams out is as opposed to the cost difference you pay for "Betterheader" to do them. You have to lift them in place either way but Betterheader, they're heavier since everything is installed already. Sometimes it's easier to lift something up that's lighter and then fill in.

   http://betterheader.com/ibeam.asp

   Joe Carola

   
   

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   Edited 5/21/2006 1:10 pm ET by Framer

1. 
   trident | May 22, 2006 02:13am | #18

   Framer, your a good man.. thanks for your help

8. 
   BossHog | May 21, 2006 09:09pm | #8

   We sell I-beams, and will pre-drill them for a fee.

   They use a "magnetic drill". They have a powerful magnet in the base that sucks it down to the steel beam. on the side is a crank that you turn which is basically like a drill press.

   If you have someone talented with an acetylene torch, they can blow some holes in it fairly easily.

   If you're looking at hanging something off the side of an I-beam, Simpson makes a line of top flange hangers for those applications.

   Out of my mind. Back in five minutes
1. 
   davidmeiland | May 21, 2006 09:51pm | #11

   I looked at using those top flange hangers and came up with squat. They hang the top of the wood flush with the top of the steel, so the welding flange makes a bump under your subfloor. They have the sizes for 2x but if you want to hang a double you need to order special. They're also costly compared to the nail-on versions. Great idea, not enough research into what the product line should include for the average residential job, IMO.

1. 
   CloudHidden | May 21, 2006 10:02pm | #12

   I used them, and the I-joists I used with them are sized to set above the weld...roughly 1/4" above the beam.

1. 
   davidmeiland | May 21, 2006 10:27pm | #13

   I used standard 2x10 and the depth of the hanger is 9-1/4", if I remember from perusing the catalog. I briefly considered using them, and then using red chalk to mark the bottom of the plywood for relieving with a sawblade. Too much trouble.

   Simpson will of course make anything you want to order. A hanger that's 9" deep would have cost about $8!

9. 
   andy_engel | May 21, 2006 09:20pm | #9

   Why would you site-drill the steel? Buy it drilled. No matter what they charge, it's worth it.

   Andy

   "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein

   "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

10. 
    Framer | May 21, 2006 09:21pm | #10

    With all this steel, I'm sure you’re going to have to have a welder there to weld plates to the top of the columns and then bolt the plates to the bottom of the steel. The plates have to also be welded to the bottom of the steel and then bolted into the foundation. That's how it's done around here anyway. I know a few guys around here that do all that and they also drill the holes if need.

    Or you can also give the steel supplier the exact height of the columns and they will already come with the plates on them and all you have to do is bolt them to the foundation and bottom of the I-beam

    A lot of times the holes have to be drilled on the site because those I-beams will have the existing joists and new joists hanging on them so we just get the layout of the existing joists and make sure the bolts will not be in the same spot and will line up the new joists with the old joists.

    Joe Carola

    
    

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    Edited 5/21/2006 2:23 pm ET by Framer

11. 
    BillHartmann | May 21, 2006 10:34pm | #14

    Don't know what the small shops use, but the large steel fabricators have both drills and punches.

    Back in the 70's I worked a custom automation system to upgrade and OLD i-beam line. IIRC some of the dates on it where from the twenties.

    the punches and drills where newer.

    It consisted of a carriage that rode on tracts with rollers between the tracks. On one side was a linear gear. The carriage gripped one end of the beam and "side car" which a gear to move it. The gear could be moved with a hydrylic motor or with a hand wheel.

    It positioned the beam under the punch or drill.

12. 
    blue_eyed_devil | May 22, 2006 05:19am | #19

    Trident, I survived three years in a steel supply shop right out of high school. We could punch holes to order with a hydralic punch that hung from an overhead crane (I fabbed quite a bit of commercial stuff), or we would burn them with a torch ( we burned most residential stuff). Either way, it's no big deal for the guys that you order your steel from.

    Are you packing the 2x's on the beam to strengthen it (I doubt that, but I don't know), or to create a place to nail hangers to carry joist?

    Have you considered welding a plate on the bottom. Around these parts, thats what we do. When I worked in the steel yard, I welded hundreds of plates for dropped floors. Dropped family rooms were the rage back in the 70's and we used to send out at least one a day and sometimes as many as five or more. The normal plate that we welded was 1/4" x 9'' and the lengths were about 17'. It works fine. I did one on the shell package that we sold last winter.

    Heres a sketch to show what I'm talking about. Thanks for giving me a reason to play with sketchup again. 

     

    
13. 
    raftercrafter | May 22, 2006 09:09am | #22

    what does adding this lumber to the steel beam accomplish?

    I've only worked with steel beams on three houses over the years, always to carry floor joists over garages. the first time, a 2x6 was ramset to the top of the beam by the supplier so we could install top flange hangers for solid wood joists. the 2x6 popped off when the lumber truck dumped the beam, but it was easy to line the nails back up with the holes and tap it back on.

    the second time, a welder tacked 5/8" threaded studs 12" o.c. to tops of 3/ 30'+ beams in two rows for 3x4's we bolted along each top edge of each beam for top flange beam hangers (GLT's, I think). LVL beams hung perpindicular to the steel beams, and I joists hung from them. what a mess- very labor intensive.

    last time we had the welder tack 12" pieces of Simpson coil strapping to the top of the beam every couple of feet, and we wrapped the straps around a 2x on the beam and nailed w/ teco nails like you would a Simpson MAB. piece of cake